Delete or remove a trim...

[Gigi]

I think I should be able to delete or otherwise remove a trim... Am I wrong?

I used a pipe fitting to trim a hole in a sheet metal tank where it would be attached. Now I'd like to move the fitting or change it's size, but I can't seem to delete the trimmed hole any more. Did something make it permanent?

Now how do I get rid of the hole? Should I not have done it that way? 

[HDEAR]

Hi Gigi,

I assume you were using 'Sheetmetal' for your tank, and it wasn't just a shelled cylinder, correct?  

How did you go about the trim in the first place? Did you use the 'Sheet Metal' -> 'Cut Sheetmetal' function?

See video - you simply find the cut operation in the scene tree and delete it and start a new cut.

Does that help?

[Bertrand Kim]

gi gigi

Can you post a picture about that part or video?

I don't understand what is "a trim" exactly

[Gigi]

I'm not at my computer right now so I'll try to explain better.

The tank is a rectangule of ⅛" aluminum made with sheet metal tools. Two "c" shapes that fit together.

The weld fitting has a lip on it that would sit inside the hole in the tank. So, I position the fitting against the tank with the lip sticking through and used the trim tool to trim the tank part with the fitting as the cutting part, removing the tank material from where the fitting intersects, leaving a hole. 

At that point it seemed like the trimmed hole was like a part, like a negative cylinder extrusion through the sheet metal would be, that I could later modify. 

However now I can't seem to do anything with it. I do have three trims in the parts tree for the three holes I made, but deleting or selecting them doesn't seem to do anything.

One thing is I did extend the length of the sheet metal part with the trims in it. Would that brake it, or am I missing something? 

I thought this would be a good idea because the hole has to be correctly sized for the fitting with a minimum of human error. 

If this doesn't make sense, I'll make a video later. Iron cad can record screen videos now? 

[SSIMMONS]

Good Morning Gigi,

 

of course you can remove a trim, I agree that would be awful if you couldn't. See attached video. (Please forgive the horrible method I used to make this box, it was rushed).

 

-Spencer

Edited September 28, 2022 by SSIMMONS

[Gigi]

Thanks Spencer.

So it looks like you deleted the trim from the tree in the scene browser.

Except I tried that and despite the trims being gone from the tree, the holes are still there. I had three holes trimmed for three different fittings. I think one that was created more recently did react. Disappear when suppressed or deleted. Maybe I have to look a little more closely.

Wuld changing the sheet metal shape effect the trims editability? 

I wonder if trimming is a good way to do this or if I should have just used a cut cylinder to make the hole? Or something else? Does a trim always remain a property of a part? In this case it makes senses that it would, but if I think of other trim scenarios don't seem like it necessarily would, like of you change the part after the trim, or a split... 

[SSIMMONS]

1 hour ago, Gigi said:

Thanks Spencer.

So it looks like you deleted the trim from the tree in the scene browser.

Except I tried that and despite the trims being gone from the tree, the holes are still there. I had three holes trimmed for three different fittings. I think one that was created more recently did react. Disappear when suppressed or deleted. Maybe I have to look a little more closely.

Wuld changing the sheet metal shape effect the trims editability? 

I wonder if trimming is a good way to do this or if I should have just used a cut cylinder to make the hole? Or something else? Does a trim always remain a property of a part? In this case it makes senses that it would, but if I think of other trim scenarios don't seem like it necessarily would, like of you change the part after the trim, or a split... 

So that is likely a display issue and not the reality of the part. Run the "recreate display" function (shown in the snip below) and my bet would be that everything fixes.

I literally have this bound to my mouse because I use it so often. Hope this helps.

 

-Spencer

Edited September 28, 2022 by SSIMMONS

[HDEAR]

Hi Spencer,

I was wondering why you and the OP were using Trim instead of Cut. They achieve the same result in terms of making a hole in the SM, but with the Cutting operation you can use the TriBall to shift the cut whereas you can't use the Tribal to shift the Trim.

In my video at the end I tried engaging the Tribal on the Trim but it doesn't engage.

It seems you cannot alter the Trim or Cut size once it's made - that I can see anyhow. It would be nice to have the Cut associative to the Pipe that made the cut, of if using Triam, make the trim associative and moveable with the Triball

Harley

Edited September 28, 2022 by HDEAR

[SSIMMONS]

1 hour ago, HDEAR said:

Hi Spencer,

I was wondering why you and the OP were using Trim instead of Cut. They achieve the same result in terms of making a hole in the SM, but with the Cutting operation you can use the TriBall to shift the cut whereas you can't use the Tribal to shift the Trim.

In my video at the end I tried engaging the Tribal on the Trim but it doesn't engage.

It seems you cannot alter the Trim or Cut size once it's made - that I can see anyhow. It would be nice to have the Cut associative to the Pipe that made the cut, of if using Triam, make the trim associative and moveable with the Triball

Harley

 

Good Afternoon Harley,

 

I was just answering his/her question more or less. I would never use trim in these circumstances, but I do use it during more complex operations where a hole block or cylinder wont help me (this usually comes down to complex chute systems where multiple flat plates are meeting at various angles). So I agree with what you are saying entirely for sure. You can even parametrically locate a hole cylinder so it will stay where you want it based on a point of interest. Most of the time I use a trim it is to determine a base point and then I replace with hole block and delete trim operation (hard to explain without a long video).

-Spencer

 

 

Edit: On second glance you are not talking about a hole cylinder at all are you? I am not familiar with the "Cut" feature. Why not use a hole cylinder? Unless I'm mistaken of course, I might be overthinking this one

Edited September 28, 2022 by SSIMMONS

[HDEAR]

39 minutes ago, SSIMMONS said:

Edit: On second glance you are not talking about a hole cylinder at all are you? I am not familiar with the "Cut" feature. Why not use a hole cylinder? Unless I'm mistaken of course, I might be overthinking this one

Hi Spencer, looking at my post, sorry I sounded a bit patronising there!

DOH! Yes, of course, a 'cut cylinder answers all the questions, ticks all the boxes doesn't it, and no reason not to use it if you have round pipe.

The CUT SM feature is good when you have odd shapes or when you have other SM objects you'd like to cut into the original SM piece.

Harley

[Gigi]

Ah, this is getting interesting

* I still can't get these trimmed holes to go away. Not a screen issue: did a "regenerate" and it didn't fix it. Any tips on how to get rid of them at this point? rebuild that sheet metal part?

* Found the "cut sheetmetal" tool on the sheet metal tab. Its not exactly like trim because it removes sheet metal where the other part intersects, in this case, removing a ring where the flange went through, whereas trim removes everything inside the outer face of the flange, making a empty hole. I can see where this would be useful. I could use a solid cylinder to make a hole with Cut Sheetmetal, but in this case, I think a Cut Cylinder object would at least save a step.

* Oddly after Cut Sheetmetal tool, the Triball on my pipe flange that I just used gets repositioned a little ways away from the flange, seemingly randomly, 

Thanks for your help and support, I am learning some surf here and definitely appreciate it.

[IronKevin]

Please post your .ics file or send to support@ironcad.com and we will investigate in the morning.

[Gigi]

Here's the ICS file

I repeated the Cut Sheetmetal operation I did previously with the "2in Weld Fitting" and did not get the same result with the Triball. I did notice after clicking around on my previous attempt that the spin which forms the lip on the fitting was nolonger in place, so maybe I miss-clicked somewhere and did something weird. Who knows. I still can't get my 2-1/2" holes in the tank to go away. I tried doing a trim on a test piece of sheet metal and it responded to delete and suppress, and even after I changed the shape of the sheet metal part, so I'm stumped there. There's probably something obvious that I'm not understanding yet that you'll pick up on right away. Lots of learning going on here. 

hydro_res_5.ics

[SSIMMONS]

16 hours ago, HDEAR said:

Hi Spencer, looking at my post, sorry I sounded a bit patronising there!

DOH! Yes, of course, a 'cut cylinder answers all the questions, ticks all the boxes doesn't it, and no reason not to use it if you have round pipe.

The CUT SM feature is good when you have odd shapes or when you have other SM objects you'd like to cut into the original SM piece.

Harley

No worries,

 

I didn't read it that way haha. Interesting, I have never noticed that cut tool before.

[IronKevin]

 

 

[Gigi]

22 hours ago, IronKevin said:

 

Aaaah yes, that makes perfect sense. For the fix, at least.

I'm still curious about how and and when those trims lost their independence and became just a part of the sheet metal profile.

Thank you so much! 

[IronKevin]

That is a mystery since I know of no way to convert a trim into sketch geometry without some amount of manual sketch editing.