jirvin Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 (edited) I have an issue with Ironcad losing part numbers & descriptions. If I copy/link a part using the triball and then unlink the second part, the part number and description are erased and are blank. This is very annoying when you only want to change a digit in the part number and you have to retype it all in again. Is anyone else frustrated with this ?? If you have a linked assembly inside an assembly, when the top level assembly is unlinked, then the lower level assembly was then by default set back to expand when originally set to treat as part.. Also if you unlink an assembly, then all the parts lose the part number and description. This is all happening with HF3. Cheers, Jason Edited April 24, 2008 by jirvin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 This is not good - links can create quite a minefield. I did some testing & found that it's possible to safely break the links one at a time by assembling all but one of the links - but this has to be done in the root of the scene - if you try it inside another assembly, you will lose all part numbers & descriptions in the assembled links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 For the part number and description issue: It is an interesting topic. When you unlink the part, it really is a new part (new data in the scene). I can see the argument that the data should all be the same since it came from the original data. However, since the part is not linked and if you keep the original part number and description, the BOM could count this as a single item with QTY of 2 even though the unlinked part could be free to change geometrically. So I think our logic (it has been this way for a while I believe) is that we clear the part number and description to make it a new non-linked-copy part both in the scene standpoint and from a BOM standpoint (Mike's workaround is probably a loop hole). Maybe an option could be provided to allow one way or the other. But the ability to keep the part number and description on a non-linked part is dangerous unless you clearly understand what you are doing. I would like feedback on what everyone feels is the correct method. Comments welcome. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted April 24, 2008 Share Posted April 24, 2008 This never happened prior to IC10. Unlink would always retain the part number & description. It used to be that the only way you could lose that information with links was to have the links together in an assembly and then assemble some of the linked parts - breaking the link (and it seems that was only with linked assemblies - linked parts were more robust & retained their part data regardless.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkim522093 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 With regards to link, there are some issues as follows; 1.When unlink the part, I think part no. and description should be blanked as Cary said, or there should be some warning with the option that user should chnage the part no and description. 2.When unlink the part, some other properties such as Material is also blanked. But it does not have to be blanked because originally linked parts will usually have the same Material and some other properties. So when unlink, if the warning with the Properties window for the user to change, it must be great and these two issues will be cleared, I think. 3.When assemble two linked parts among three linked parts for example, then two in assembly are linked each other while one left at outside of the assembly is unlinked. But all these three parts still have the same properties. So if we change the geometry for the part out side of the assembly, it still has the same properties as two inside of the assembly. This always give confusion to the users because they usually think the link will be maintained wherever it is because they didn't unlink. (Especially users who used history based CAD tools could not understand this behavior at all.) unlink.avi So in this case, link should be maintained between these three parts wherever they are. If we drag linked part into assembly, then pop-ups come to ask if link will be maintained or not. So at least, this sort of pop-up should come when assemble two among three linked parts. JH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgrein Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Yet another reason to stay with IronCAD 9. What you describe Jason does not happen in IronCAD 9 & I am glad for that as it would really frustrate me as well. I don't think the part number & description (or any other properties) should be blanked, but if the properties browser came up right away that would be a time saver & give the user the option to change the part number & description right away. Material could also be changed at this time if needed. JH I do not understand what you wrote in point 3. In IronCAD 9 if you have 3 linked parts & create an assembly out of 2 of these parts, the one left outside is no longer linked. Any changes made to it do not affect the 2 parts in the assembly, as they are only linked to each other. I do not like this behavior. I want them all to be linked & get around this by creating an external link first, which then keeps them all linked. How does IronCAD 10 handle linked mirrored parts? I would like to be able to individually change the part number & description of linked mirrored parts. In IronCAD 9 they share the same part number & description, but they are not the same (from a manufacturing viewpoint) & thus it should be possible to change the descriptions & part number individually. For non mirrored linked parts, they should always be the same. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkim522093 Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 JH I do not understand what you wrote in point 3. In IronCAD 9 if you have 3 linked parts & create an assembly out of 2 of these parts, the one left outside is no longer linked. Any changes made to it do not affect the 2 parts in the assembly, as they are only linked to each other. I do not like this behavior. I want them all to be linked & get around this by creating an external link first, which then keeps them all linked. Wayne 21311[/snapback] That is what I want to have. All three linked parts should be maintained as linked whever it is until user unlink. JH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 The only thing I'm concerned about here is the loss of the part number & description. We had problems in previous versions of IronCAD when linked assemblies were inside another assembly & the link was broken (for instance, if 4 assemblies are linked, assemble 3 of those - losing all part numbers & descriptions for all parts in the new assembly.) This could affect dozens of parts, causing us to either retype all the information, or replace all the affected parts. This was a fairly rare occurence & all of the IronCAD users at my company have been warned to avoid this situation. Now, there is also the danger of simply unlinking an assembly & having to re-enter information or replace parts. As far as I'm concerned, Unlink should only remove the connection between entities - not wipe the slate clean. (And while we're at it, it would be nice if broken links didn't lose the information either.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 As far as I'm concerned, Unlink should only remove the connection between entities - not wipe the slate clean. (And while we're at it, it would be nice if broken links didn't lose the information either.) 21322[/snapback] I agree. Just because a part is unlinked does not mean that it is a different part. Only if the unlinked part is modified does the question of part numbers arise. I am totally against IC (or anyone else for that matter) making any assumptions on my behalf. If my engineering system of checks is weak enough to let an incorrect part number slip by, then I have problems greater than IronCAD can solve by making assumptions. On the internal link & assembly front: this "problem" was explained quite some time back (v6 timeframe) on this board. I remember at the time that I didn't fully understand the "problem", nor do I now. I don't see any reason why one can not have internal links across assemblies. I am even more outraged by the fact that IC will break your link without telling you before hand (or providing you with a way out). Especially since a link can only be broken and never re-established between two existing parts. So, in summary, my vote is: -Don't delete anything I don't explicitly tell you to (that includes links and part numbers). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Is this the desired method: During an unlinking process (forced unlink or assembly of parts where other links are broken (note: I understand the request on this one by the way), provide an dialog option to copy the part property information or remove (part property information would be part number, description, material, and custom properties) on parts that where set on all instances of this information (for parts set to only this instance would not change)? Is everyone ok with this message pop-up or does it need to be a global option? Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Urban Olars Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I want it to be a global option because I ALWAYS want to keep all properties intact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 I agree with Urban - global is best, because we always want to keep existing part data after the link is severed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Ok. I'll see what can be done. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted April 25, 2008 Share Posted April 25, 2008 Would it be possible/desirable to have the user names (and maybe the other data) append themselves in some way to show that they are no longer linked, for example adding an unlinked word or symbol, or maybe changing to red text? You could then easily find and select them in the property browser and either change the data, or have a right-click option to Keep existing data which will remove the warning symbol/red text. You could use multiple selection in the browser to clear many parts at once if needed. It seems like this would be good for those who usually want to keep the existing data, but gives a chance to go back later and decide. This could be used in conjunction with the other solutions proposed, maybe. Just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jirvin Posted April 27, 2008 Author Share Posted April 27, 2008 I would agree that a global option because we would like the part numbers kept. Will this be included in HF4 ? It is amazing how much gets discussed when you are away for a 3 day weekend !!! Thanks for you discussion boys. Sounds like i'm no the only one that has annoying little issues with V10. Cheers, Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkim522093 Posted April 28, 2008 Share Posted April 28, 2008 So, in summary, my vote is: -Don't delete anything I don't explicitly tell you to (that includes links and part numbers). 21326[/snapback] Here is one more vote for that. Without warning for the break of the link at least when assemble some of the linked parts, there is always the possibility to make the mistake. So the best what I want is "Don't delete anything I don't explicitly tell you to (that includes links and part numbers)". But if not possible or takes time to implement, then the warning at least is definetely needed to let users know that linked parts in the assembly will not be linked to originally linked one in soutside of the assembly. JH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwalls558626 Posted April 30, 2008 Share Posted April 30, 2008 I also vote not to lose any data when a part is unlinked. An example I run up against is if I have an electrical connection, and I have a series of RED wires, I will make all the connections linking them, and then maybe I want to turn half of them BLACK, I just unlink after I find out what color goes where, and at that point, I don't want to have to type in every piece of data, when usually the part number will only change by a digit or so. It just saves a lot of typing. I would also love to have the option to separate one group of linked parts into two groups of linked parts. Being able to split an existing batch of linked parts and to be able to change a part number or description and have it effect only those I choose, would be very useful. Anyone else have this desire? Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted May 5, 2008 Share Posted May 5, 2008 In Hotfix #4, the issue will be corrected. If you unlink, we will not remove the BOM information. Also, we gave you the ER (Select parts and assemble and option to maintain links to links not included in the selection). Nice thing is that if you select do not maintain links, it will give you the other ER (the parts in the assembly will be linked and the parts not in the assembly will be linked...so you have two different link sets). This will be available hopefully this week if all the final testing is good. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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