Mike Hatch Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Kevin. Is there any news on the "black" shaded rendering problem in IC2019 ? Mike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronKevin Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 We are waiting for files from you, we need both the 2018 and 2019 format .icd and .ics files. Please send them to support@ironcad.com Incident # 111465. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) We are waiting for files from you, we need both the 2018 and 2019 format .icd and .ics files. Please send them to support@ironcad.com 48761[/snapback] Hi, I left the files for download by IronCAD as they totaled 140Mb. I had this email from Blake Staff on the 11th. ----------- Mike, We downloaded the files, and see the same differences in the shaded renderings. R&D will take a look at this, and we will let you know when we have new information available. Best regards, Blake Staff Support Eng. IronCAD 2000 RiverEdge Parkway Suite 745 Atlanta, GA 30328 P: (678) 909-3302 E: bstaff@ironcad.com W: www.ironcad.com --------- Let me know if you need them again. mike.hatch@mclennan.co.uk Edited January 18, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) From a quick look at the files this morning it seems that surfaces that have had a treatment applied from the "Metals" catalog correctly render. This seems to explain why bits of the view are ok whilst the the rest is shades of grey. Applied colours (from the colour catalog) are black, applied treatments from the "Plastic" catalog are black. EG - Item 19 in the attached image is a green PCB, with yellow capacitors, orange disc fuse, grey RJ11 connector, gold pins on the rear of a D9 connector. - Only the gold pins and the metallic leads of the fuse show, the remainder is black. Items 21 & 22 have multiple coloured wires all are balk but the gold metallic pins show. Whilst discussing "shaded rendering" is there a reason that "Update View" is greyed out for view options with a shaded render ? needing to turn it off and back on to update the view. Edited January 18, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronKevin Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Sorry Mike, We have the files, the bug is still being investigated by R&D. We will notify you when the status changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonas@Solidmakarna Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 Quick question, have you tried the Quick Mode setting for the views? It is often a better option for shaded views. Unless you are already using if of course... (doesn't look like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 Quick question, have you tried the Quick Mode setting for the views? It is often a better option for shaded views. Unless you are already using if of course... (doesn't look like that). 48799[/snapback] We normally have it set to Draft, up to IC2018 this has worked well for us. Not so with 2019. Attached image - - the left side is set to Quick, the right to Precise. Quick is better but there is still a large portion in shades of grey. Precise just shows outlines ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill C Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Please check your scene file. Do you have any lights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSTAFF Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Mike, The files you sent us do not have lights in them. You will notice that the lights dropdown is empty in the Scene Browser. Are there Lights in that dropdown by default in your other files created in 2019? Are you using any 3rd party tools with IronCAD? Are the lights only disappearing when opening older files? Thanks, Blake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) Please check your scene file. Do you have any lights? 49299[/snapback] Lights is not something that we have ever used on any design in 10 years, on the basis of, the results we get are fine for what we need, so don't complicate matters. The only third party tools we have used in IronCAD is the free version of pdfcreator - https://www.pdfforge.org/pdfcreator - for printing to a file. I come back to – it worked in 2018 but does not in 2019 – so something has changed. Unless it was just lucky it worked, but again, something changed. Regards, Mike Hatch Edited March 20, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronKevin Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I opened your files in 2018 and the drawing updated as dark there too. Please add lights and update the drawing and let us know if that helps or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 (edited) I opened your files in 2018 and the drawing updated as dark there too. Please add lights and update the drawing and let us know if that helps or not. 49303[/snapback] I've not been able to get time on this problem currently as product has to go out the door. However I have found the prints we made when we had 2018 and 2019 running together, see attached. 5685_a___SM9892_MASC_5A_assemblies_2018.pdf 5685_a___SM9892_MASC_5A_assemblies_2019.pdf Both were made - without - lights, view them side by side and the differences are obvious. There are internal part changes as the design evolved but its the general look, the 2018 file represents what we have had up to the change to 2019, all with no lights. Edited March 22, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 (edited) Hi, I'm getting really ticked off with this now. I've tried lights, lots of them, I can see the effects of moving the lights around, and obtain a reasonable view, so - This is an inside view in ics - Outside view in the model - And this in the icd file - - is not what the model shows me. What I see in the model (ics) views is what I expect to see in the drawing file and did so up to 2019. An example of a much simpler previous jobs on 2018 - The model - and the drawing - No lights, just complete the model and place a standard view. As you may deduce I'm somewhat annoyed. "From Blake Staff - We downloaded the files, and see the same differences in the shaded renderings." Edited March 25, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Change the view type in the Drawing to Quick. Quick view uses the same rendering as the 3D. The Draft is using a software rendering. If you switch the scene to software, it should look similar to what you have in the drawing under Draft view. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) Change the view type in the Drawing to Quick. Quick view uses the same rendering as the 3D. The Draft is using a software rendering. If you switch the scene to software, it should look similar to what you have in the drawing under Draft view. Cary 49329[/snapback] Tools/options/rendering/render options/software is greyed out - presumably the graphics card is detected so the option is removed. The card is an NVIDIA Quadro M2000 4Gb, Display 1920x1080. I'll come back to one of my earlier comments (Jan 18) that the problem appears related to the Metals.icc catalog and that it appeared between IC2018 & IC2019, confirmed with the original (ics & icd) files by Blake Staff on the 11th Jan. Items treated from "Metals.icc" Eg Rear panel, D connector pins and body, RJ11 connector pins, are rendered as shades of grey in "quick" and true in "Draft". Other items treated from "Colors" and "Plastic" are true in "quick". If I treat the rear panel and/or other parts with something from say the "Surfaces", "Texture" or, "Stone" catalogs they all render correctly in "quick". Anything treated from metals.icc - fire, gold, chromy, brass - metals with a defined striking appearance - all come out grey. Perhaps my metals.icc catalog is corrupted ?. Mike. Attached .ics & .icd files for anyone to play with. Drawing1.icd Drawing1.ics Edited March 27, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 (edited) The 2019 "Metal.icc" catalog works as expected. "Metals" catalogs from 2016 and 2017 exhibit the same shaded rendering problem. Attached are files treated from "Metal.icc". Drawing1.icsDrawing1.icd Edited March 27, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 28, 2019 Author Share Posted March 28, 2019 (edited) Hi, Proof that the metals.icc catalog is broken in IC2019 with shaded rendering in "quick" mode. The attached files have four catalogs - metals, metal, surfaces, textures - rendered in both "quick" and "draft" modes. It points to some problem with the "metals.icc" catalog contents. In those files there are also two special test cases of - items copied from "metal" into "metals" and then used, they render correctly items copied from "metals" into "metal" and then used, they - do not - render correctly in quick mode. I also tried creating a new catalog and applied the two special cases above with the same results. In case the problem resides with old files, residues or anomalies from previous installations on my machine I have done a fresh install 30 day trial on a laptop that has never seen IronCAD at a totally remote location. The shaded rendering problem occurs on this new installation. catalog_test.icdCatalog_test.ics Mike. Edited March 28, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Hi Mike, The issue is the metals catalog is really setup for reflections and the Diffuse Intensity is set to 10. Which in the drawing, that diffuse will basically draw it black. If you adjust the Diffuse to say 80, you will see the difference. This will happen in general if you set the Diffuse on any smartpaint to low numbers. The Metal catalog has the diffuse set much higher thus no issue. The metals is an older catalog built for the older style rendering capabilities. They need to be updated to properly handle the lighting conditions outside of the scene. The Metal catalog is using a newer method to draw the materials and uses the realistic rendering engine to render them. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 Hi Mike, The issue is the metals catalog is really setup for reflections and the Diffuse Intensity is set to 10. Which in the drawing, that diffuse will basically draw it black. If you adjust the Diffuse to say 80, you will see the difference. This will happen in general if you set the Diffuse on any smartpaint to low numbers. The Metal catalog has the diffuse set much higher thus no issue. The metals is an older catalog built for the older style rendering capabilities. They need to be updated to properly handle the lighting conditions outside of the scene. The Metal catalog is using a newer method to draw the materials and uses the realistic rendering engine to render them. Cary 49367[/snapback] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hatch Posted March 29, 2019 Author Share Posted March 29, 2019 (edited) So I'm using an outdated catalog ?, I've been using the wrong catalog ?, nice that someone has told us, gives us problem with the last 10 years of drawings and models then doesn't it. We are now in the position of wanting this model - - but only able to have one or the other of these - . So if I want the treatments available in the "older" METALS catalog to be available and working correctly as METAL does, how do we accomplish this ?. To use a politicians phrase from our very unfortunate current Brexit fiasco - "Let me be clear" - we want the model above - gold pins, aluminum panel, silver filter, coloured wires, cloudy white crimp colours - essentially the assembly I have here in my sticky little mitt - - to magically appear in an .icd production drawing. WYSIWYG And another curious anomaly - why does the model shift position between draft and quick leaving the item bubbles hanging in space. Frustrated from the UK. Edited March 29, 2019 by Mike Hatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 The metals catalog has always been the same and would produce the same results on the drawing. When they were created, they were primarily for a 3D look and didn't consider the drawing environment at the time. If you edit the materials and adjust the diffuse and other settings, you can still get the look and it will improve the drawing look. For example: Set the Diffuse to 80 and the Ambient to 20, you will get about the same look in the rendering and it will appear in the drawing. Note: The reflected images work in Draft Shaded. They will not show in the newer Quick rendering at this time. If you like those setting changes, you can edit the catalog item, change them, and save them for future use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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