H Slots and H Cylinders on unfolds not showing

[HDEAR]

Ironcad 2014.

 

I'm designing a cylinder in 8mm thick steel ( about 1000mm dia ) which will be rolled when manufactured. the cylinder is parallel, no taper.

 

Around the perimeter of the cylinder at various heights and radial points, there will be holes and slots. These will be made when the sheet is in its flat form, prior to rolling.

 

Using either ACIS or Parasolid for parts, if I use loft sheet metal to make the cylinder, then unfold the sheet and add H Slot and H Cylinder where I want them, when I refold, they do not show.

 

Similarly, if I use H Cylinder in the cylinder's folded/lofted shape it appears when I unfold it ( which is ok ) and whenI refold it and delete that H Cylinder,it still appears if I click the unfold on the unfold scene history.

 

I'd rather make the penetrations in the flat profile because that's how it will be made. The slots in particular have to be relation to the circumference ( because of air flow requirements ).

 

I'm a newbie to 3D ( old fashioned draughtsman who used the antique methods of pen on tracing paper and razor blades for rubbing out lines! ) so please be gentle

 

How do I get the flattened penetrations to show when I refold?

Edited August 17, 2014 by HDEAR

[jolizon590016]

I used a cylinder from the shapes catalog and sized it to 1000 x 1000 x 1000 mm. I applied shell with a thickness of 0.8 and applied the H Slot and copied them with the TriBall. It does unfold or to be more precise as a flat pattern using the Solid/Surface Flat Pattern from Faces from the Sheetmetal tab and creates a new Part3 which cannot be refolded as it was not created as a sheet metal part that have distinct bend lines. I stand corrected on this again as the Ctrl + K will d let you do this.

 

The slot (100 x 50) did transfer to pattern, So what I did was to measure it from the ICDrawing which gave a value of 100.085. But I understand your requirements to have the slots relative to the circumference, so what may be as work around will be to change the slot length and create a new flat pattern again. Tedious but will work.

 

Someone might have a better idea on this

 

Regards - joseph

1000cylinder.ics

1000cylinder.icd

Edited August 17, 2014 by jolizon590016

[jolizon590016]

As the Ctrl + K slipped my memory, I did a CK version and applied the H Slot and H Cylinder. It appears on the unfold sheet metal. This corrects everything from earlier reply. However using shapes and extract pattern is something worth considering if you are in a rush though.

 

Regards - joseph

1000sheetcylinder.ics

[HDEAR]

I used a cylinder from the shapes catalog and sized it to 1000 x 1000 x 1000 mm. I applied shell with a thickness of 0.8 and applied the H Slot and copied them with the TriBall. It does unfold or to be more precise as a flat pattern using the Solid/Surface Flat Pattern from Faces from the Sheetmetal tab and creates a new Part3 which cannot be refolded as it was not created as a sheet metal part that have distinct bend lines. I stand corrected on this again as the Ctrl + K will d let you do this..

38453[/snapback]

I tried this in a new file, following the cylinder/shell/solidfaceflat pattern as you describe. CTRL-K did not allow me to refold.

 

I then tried adding s/m stock in a new scene, made a few bends, unfolded it, added H Slot and H cylinder, these appeared on the flattened sheet, but disappeared when I refolded.

 

CTRL-K is making no difference. Something's screwy- probably me

 

??????

Edited August 18, 2014 by HDEAR

[jolizon590016]

I was not thorough enough. I did the cylinder from the created loft from the sheet metal tab and using two identical 2D profiles compared to what I done earlier using catalog shapes.

 

I hope this clears it up

 

Joseph

[HDEAR]

I was not thorough enough. I did the cylinder from the created loft from the sheet metal tab and using two identical 2D profiles compared to what I  done earlier using catalog shapes.

 

I hope this clears it up

 

Joseph

38456[/snapback]

Thanks. What do you reckon is causing this problem then :"I then tried adding s/m stock in a new scene, made a few bends, unfolded it, added H Slot and H cylinder, these appeared on the flattened sheet, but disappeared when I refolded."

 

I'm wondering if I've got something set up wrong. I can't create a hole in a sheet of metal using extrude/remove material ( sketch on a face, then use extrude) BUT I can create the hole using Extrude Wizard. I wonder why normal extrude doesn't work and wizard does?

Edited August 18, 2014 by HDEAR

[HDEAR]

Here's a demonstration of what I mean.

 

The first four attachments show a sheetmetal part made in SW. First pic is with bends and one penetration. Next is unfolded. Next is penetrations made in the unfolded part. Finally, refold, showing the penetrations that were added in the unfold position.

 

Next four ( prfixed IC) are the same sequence in IC, but you'll note that when the refold is done, it does not pick up the penetrations added onto the unfold part. Also note that the fold lines areb't shown on the unfolded part in scene view - perhaps there's a button I should press to display that that I am not aware of.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

[IronKevin]

We do not have the ability to add shapes to the flat then fold them back up.

[jolizon590016]

This may not be the answer to what you are looking for but others may have better knowledge on this

 

placement of H parts produces different results

 

unfolded result

 

Selecting the components highlights in yellow, creating a group allows

 

toggle group displays highlights

 

regards

plate2.ics

[mwalls558626]

Quick question....Is there a reason you cannot put the cutouts into the round shape part before unfolding? Seems to me that if the part is going to be a cylinder when it is in use, you should put the cutouts into the cylindrical shape, and then when you unfold it, you'll know where the holes need to be in Flat Pattern. I may have missed something here.......

 

Mike

[IronKevin]

Hi Mike,

 

I'm afraid I don't understand your question. What do you mean by "put the cutouts into the round shape part before unfolding"?

[mwalls558626]

Kev,

 

Unless I'm missing something, the part in question is a cylindrical shape ( 1000mm diameter) when in use. On this part there are some cutouts. It also sounds like the part is going to be rolled, so it will be in a flat condition before rolling, and they want to put the cutouts into it while it is flat. In that case, why can't the part be made from a piece of Conic Stock with the same radius top and bottom? Then, just put all the cutouts into the Conic Stock shape, and then unfold it for locations of cutouts in flat condition. I do this all the time......

 

Mike

[jolizon590016]

Thanks Mike for sharing. Brilliantly simple IC works with the beholder.

 

Joseph

Edited August 21, 2014 by jolizon590016

[HDEAR]

We do not have the ability to add shapes to the flat then fold them back up.

38476[/snapback]

Is there any plan in the future to offer this?

[HDEAR]

Quick question....Is there a reason you cannot put the cutouts into the round  shape part before unfolding? Seems to me that if the part is going to be a cylinder when it is in use, you should put the cutouts into the cylindrical shape, and then when you unfold it, you'll know where the holes need to be in Flat Pattern. I may have missed something here.......

 

Mike

38488[/snapback]

Well, in this case the material is actually not steel but plastic. The cylinder will be rolled plastic. The H Slot/Oblong will be cut into the plastic in the flat form. The area of the H Slots will be relational to a certain surface area at the bottom of the cylinder which in turn is relational to the diameter. In this case it's critical to control air flow into the bottom of the cylinder in relation to the cylinder's diameter/plan area. Therefore a precise slot area/diameter-hight area is required. It's not easy to control that by doing H Slot into the cylinder when it's rolled. Hope this makes sense.

 

Also some of our punches are designed to create a certain profile when the stock is rolled to a certain diameter. Some may consider this is the tail wagging the dog. Hope this makes sense.

Edited August 21, 2014 by HDEAR

[jolizon590016]

As I gather it the rolled plastic are flow control regulator inserts acting like a scroll valve. Or each rolled patterned plastic sheet correspond a value. I hope I got that right.

Edited August 21, 2014 by jolizon590016

[jolizon590016]

This is a refresh on me. IC does everything in 3D and all 3D editing is done in that space. However there is a pseudo 2D I think may work in this situation.

I have placed the annotation text on the images on a sequence for guidance:

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you change the values of the H-Slot postion and size, the Smart Dimensions updates on the unfold sheet metal part when you invoke the Sheet Metal Part Unfold. The correct preview will be updated after this. This is the nearest thing I have come up to currently.

 

Precise positioning from the planes by switching plane views and with the TriBall features. I have attached the file and the close cylinder with a seam was done by Mike's way of using the Conic Stock.

 

Regards - joseph

cylinder12345.ics

Edited August 21, 2014 by jolizon590016

[Jonas@Solidmakarna]

For a rolled sheet metal - tube

 

Drop a Stock from the Sheetmetal catalog.

Drop a Bend on an edge.

Delete the first Stock shape in the part

Edit the Bend radius and length, say 359 degrees for a tube looking part that can be unfolded.

 

Adding a hole:

 

Drop a Custom Profile (the very last icon at the bottom which is creating a hole).

- when dropped, try to "aim" for one of the "corners" of the tube, where you can see the 359 degree part edge running along the length of the part. Then you will get two smart dimensions which makes it easier to place the hole at the correct place. The hole position is edited like it the sheet metal part was unfolded. I you only get one smart dimension, try placing a new hole. Delete the first one.

 

Hope this helps.

[jolizon590016]

Thanks Jonas, this also taught me to make a hinge faster. This a better solution.

Regards - joseph

[mwalls558626]

Well, in this case the material is actually not steel but plastic.  The cylinder will be rolled plastic. The H Slot/Oblong will be cut into the plastic in the flat form.  The area of the H Slots will be relational to a certain surface area at the bottom of the cylinder which in turn is relational to the diameter.  In this case it's critical to control air flow into the bottom of the cylinder in relation to the cylinder's diameter/plan area. Therefore a precise slot area/diameter-hight area is required.  It's not easy to control that by doing H Slot into the cylinder when it's rolled. Hope this makes sense.

 

Also some of our punches are designed to create a certain profile when the stock is rolled to a certain diameter.  Some may consider this is the tail wagging the dog. Hope this makes sense.

38496[/snapback]

 

 

You can also make any custom shape "punch" you like as a solid part, place it on the cylinder where it needs to be, and then use the "Cut Sheet Metal Part" command to make a hole in the part that is the same shape as the solid punch shape you made.

 

You do this by:

1) Selecting the cylinder at the Part Level (blue outline)

2) Hold the Shift key down and then Left Mouse Button pick the custom punch shape

3) Hit the "Cut Sheet Metal Part" command, and the cylinder will now have the custom punch shape removed from it. You'll have to hide or suppress the shape to see it, but the cut will be there.

 

I can't imagine a more precise way to put the shape you want on a cylinder, and then get a good flat pattern.

That being said, it would be real nice to be able to put cuts, or bend lines, into a flat piece, and then fold or roll it up after.

 

Mike

[Cary OConnor]

Maybe we should back up here a little to the original question - Can you add cuts in the flat and refold. The answer is yes but not by using the Unfold command.

 

1. Drop a custom profile onto a bend.

2. Right-click edit profile in the Flat.

3. Use the stock as reference to build the profile and finish.

 

This works for the general bends and such.

 

Cary

[dleczynski]

Maybe we should back up here a little to the original question - Can you add cuts in the flat and refold. The answer is yes but not by using the Unfold command.

 

1. Drop a custom profile onto a bend.

2. Right-click edit profile in the Flat.

3. Use the stock as reference to build the profile and finish.

 

This works for the general bends and such.

 

Cary

38514[/snapback]

I did not know this function. it works great! My perfo attach.

[HDEAR]

Wow, what an amazing community! Thanks guys for all the input! I feel more confident about using IC now, especially being a newbie and coming across some challenges which may seem a piece a cake to the experienced.

[jolizon590016]

Here's a demonstration of what I mean.

 

The first four attachments show a sheetmetal part made in SW. First pic is with bends and one penetration.  Next is unfolded. Next is penetrations made in the unfolded part.  Finally, refold, showing the penetrations that were added in the unfold position.

 

Next four ( prfixed IC) are the same sequence in IC, but you'll note that when the refold is done, it does not pick up the penetrations added onto the unfold part.  Also note that the fold lines areb't shown on the unfolded part in scene view - perhaps there's a button I should press to display that that I am not aware of.

 

Any help appreciated.

 

Thanks

38473[/snapback]

 

With Cary's, Jonas' and Mike's insight, I was able to do SWX penetration to creep to the bends correctly by Right-click Modify Affected Bends on the Custom Profile and move position in Right-click edit profile in the Flat. It may not be as single action as SWX but may produce what Dariusz did. Please follow the sequence off the images to view.

 

Hope this add a much desired functionality on your end.

 

joseph

plateB1.ics

Edited August 21, 2014 by jolizon590016

[jolizon590016]

A pdf guide was created from the work around process contributed by the members to this thread. It can be found on the Tips and Tricks part of the forum. The edit in the profile in the flat and to creep to bends will be the next guide to be documented.

 

joseph

Edited August 31, 2014 by jolizon590016