3D printers - advice please on what to get for starters

[HDEAR]

Hi all,

Well, I figure that having learned to use CAXA ( to some extent ) it's time for the next '3D CAD challenge'.

So, my next new toy is going to be a 3D printer ( even 'The War Office' has agreed ).

My son has recommended starting with Prusa  https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/3d-printers/180-original-prusa-i3-mk3s-kit.html?gclid=CjwKCAjwjbCDBhAwEiwAiudByx5-mQQjJq-UYuV4IpRpOOFzbdClgPttTfuKGUoMmkOqyXpx5zzflRoCMKoQAvD_BwE along with their multi-colour kit.

But before I press the 'spend now' button, I wonder what advice any of you have when it comes to this technology - in terms of 'what to get for a reliable starter kit'  I am comfortable with spending good money if it means a good result.

Ideas and advice please. Also advice/experience on how IC works with this technology 

Thanks and cheers

Harley

Edited April 7, 2021 by HDEAR

[Josh]

@HDEAR I have a Prusa Mk3, it's great. It's been really reliable, and can easily be tweaked in lots of ways. If it ever does break there will likely be plenty of spare parts and a community of people that can help fix it (the Prusa community is big). 

Depending on how much you like building Ikea furniture, I would recommend getting the pre-assembled version rather than the kit. Assembling the kit is easy, but VERY time consuming. Expect at least 6 hours of little screws and reading through instructions if you buy the kit. Mine literally sat unused for many months because I was busy and didn't get around to it, because I knew it would take so long. Eventually I got around to it and it's been a ton of fun.

I haven't done the multi-material kit yet, as I've read it can be extremely finicky, and I haven't needed to do much multi-material stuff (you can still do multi-material without the kit, you just have to change the filament manually which is easy as long as it's only a few changes per print.

IC works no problem, you just export your file as an STL (Stereolithography) and then import into the Prusa software which creates the Gcode for the printer.
Note when exporting STLs, increase the resolution to around 200 or so, instead of the default "fine" or "course" modes, because both those modes are pretty course in reality. (This should be fixed in a future IC update I hope).

 

Filament
Don't worry about buying lots of filament, once you start printing you will probably realise the filament you want is different to what you bought and so on. I have a ton of filament I bought at the beginning which is probably never going to be used.

There are some cool companies making recycled filament if you want to use that too, filamentive.com are great, and I've even got some Nylon filament made from disgarded fishing nets. From an environmental standpoint, from what I understand recycling PETG (made from oil) is likely better than using new PLA (made from plants) which is theoretically bio-degradable. But defintely get some PLA to start, as it's a little easier to print with than PETG. Although note PLA can't be used for many real world applications, even if you leave it in a hot car in the sun, it will ruin the print (it has a very low melting point).

Carbon fibre filaments are very overated. I wouldn't bother with them (I have some). Basically they are more stiff but weaker than standard.

This is a good resource for materials: https://help.prusa3d.com/en/materials

 

Other stuff
This guy (CNC Kitchen) has a great YouTube channel with a ton of info on filament, material strength tests, printer tweaks etc. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiczXOhGpvoQGhOL16EZiTg

I have some cool models that I can send you that I have printed. Including a replica of the NASA 3D printable fabric made in IC.

It's a good idea to buy some spare nozzles, you can clean nozzles, but when one gets clogged it's a pain and much better if you can quickly swap a new one in and clean the other one later.

This is a great video to get you excited about possibilities.

 

Have fun!

[HDEAR]

WOW!  Thanks for taking so much time to make detailed help response there Josh!

Yes, my son who has the Prusa is 'the rocket scientist' in our family and he said it took him 9 hours straight to assemble and commission his. He's offered to fly down and show me how to assemble it but hey, can't have my son showing me up can I . I'm looking forward to the assembly and you save several hundred $US to boot.

Thanks for the advice on the spare nozzles - I'll get those as well.

Let's see if anyone else comes up with a recommended model but good to know you like what my son has recommended.

Once again, thanks Josh.

Harley

 

 

 

 

[SSIMMONS]

Man I wish you didn't post this question, I can feel my wallet getting slimmer already haha. But in all seriousness, great post and response...I may be revisiting my want for a 3D printer now. Thanks!

 

- Spencer

[HDEAR]

3 hours ago, SSIMMONS said:

Man I wish you didn't post this question, I can feel my wallet getting slimmer already haha.

Well, I look at it this way - the money doesn't work when you're under the grass

[tlehnhaeuser]

Hi Harley,

Not sure if you know but I resell 3D printers and always looking to new ones to test and represent. That being heres my input.

First, ultimately, what do you want to do with your 3D printer? That is the major question because the answer will take you into several worlds where you can get lost :-)

Do you want to print Plastic, Metal, Nylon, Carbon Fiber, Resin

Do you want to print strong functional parts for automotive, household, shop etc...

Do you want to create art?

Do you want to create very detailed art?

All these will steer you into different types of 3d printing.

That being said, lets assume you want to print general use "plastic" type prototypes since you mentioned the PRUSA. Although I have never tested a PRUSA, the reviews seem to indicate its a good machine.

I have tested Formlabs - forget them, its more trouble than its worth. I've tested Makerbot, forget them too well overrated and many issues. Many I have tested already no longer in existence ie Type A machines.

I have and represent 2 brands which I like for various reasons - ZYYX and Raise3D.  The easiest 3D printer I have ever used is the ZYYX plus, it doesn;t have all the "overhead" others have and no heated bed which makes printing a dream. Somehow they figured out how to print great without it. However, its still relatively "new" company and based in Sweden, so support is a little lagged if needed.

The Raise3D products are great, all of them. The machines built using construction grade metal materials and no parts using the the construction are 3d printed like you will find in most other products. It makes for a reliable machine, the E2 model allows you to print 2 parts simultaneously which is great if your want mass production.

IRONCAD works just fine as Josh noted, the only thing is I tend to use OBJ files over STL files, they just seem to me to be a little cleaner.

Any other questions, just holler.

Tom

 

 

[HDEAR]

Thanks Tom,

No, I didn't know you resell 3D printers, otherwise I would have come direct

I guess my main printing requirement is in plastic, mainly for scaled models of equipment and systems I design and sell, but there are some small part I need to print because I can't buy these parts anymore ( or can't find who sells them ). Here is one typical one;

It's an air sampling connector about 35mm total length with barb for 1/4" ( yes we still sometimes use the good old imperial here ) tubing. It's in two parts and the 'bung' has an O ring fitted. We don't have a huge requirement in numbers of  these, but they're a vital part of our design and without them our product no longer has a competitive edge.

These are from ( what I can gather ) PVC or white plastic.

Can you provide me prices by PM for the machines you sell please?

Cheers - Harley

 

 

[jvik]

Hi HDEAR, I think Tom might guide you in to a easy start hardware. I`v been working with additive manufacturing for more than 16 years. And like most people talking about buying a 3D printer to day, you are looking at FDM machines. This is the simplest and therefor the technique choice for the majority of the market today, due to the simplicity and open source revolution in development, this "robotic glue gun" was studently possible to build as a school project run by a $5 arduino computer. Anyway, after having 3d printers from $1000 to $230.000 these years, I must admit, that the FDM principle machines have turned most ideas to reality in my timeframe.

It is however important to understand that they all need a little "tweaking" and the advertised "copy machine, push button get part" does not hold water neither the $500 machine or a $500.000 one. Start building parts in PLA, the material is not great, but in most cases, it is a "design check", when you have hit the target, swap into a more robust material, you then know the part fit, and have learned the basic tweaking.  The tube fittings you show are a typical case that you will find complicated at start, use PLA and learn the "business", design for 3d printing will be a key thing to learn. I have been hired in to teach engineer and design students at university to 3d print for years, learning them to design for 3Dprinting have been the key to success, not to learn the 3d printing bit. The use of .obj (Wavefield) as post out format from IC is a good advice, the majority uses .stl (stereolitography) that is sad, because it have lowered the general standard of the shared 3d print objects for the global communities. 

When you have got the hold of printing PLA materials, you should try PETG (PET), ABS or CPE (co polyester) filament, and get products with long lifecycle.

 

Good luck !

Jan

[HDEAR]

Thanks Jan,

 learning them to design for 3Dprinting have been the key to success, not to learn the 3d printing bit. 

That's gold right there!

Harley

[Josh]

Haha great point Jan! Definitely good to be ready for lots of tweaking, especially with more difficult materials.

I would add that while there are various important limitations to learn when designing for 3D printing with FDM, there are also some capabilities which surprised me and are not intuitive. Things like bridging and printing at large overhang angles. Learning how to apply these can make for some really fun design work!

Overhang and bridging examples below. Very fun.

@jvik I've always just increased my STL resolution stupidly high, that's great to know if the slicers work with OBJs.

[HDEAR]

Hi all,

My son used his basic PRUSA to try that part - here's the result

 

First attempt

 

Then after one tweak

Not that I want to get the machine to just make that part, but even so, this is good enough for a finished product for our system and I get a 3D printer to play with for all manner of other stuff.

I used STL files. The OBJ files didn't work so well.

Tom's put me onto some other machines, so just a little more research, then I'll be a proud 3D printer owner.

Thanks everyone for pitching in with helpful advice.

Harley

 

Edited April 15, 2021 by HDEAR

[tlehnhaeuser]

Hi Harley,

Your son did a nice job! Some artifacts but mainly on the PLA but all in all its surprisingly not bad at all.

Take you son out for a cheeseburger!!!

[HDEAR]

Hi Tom,

Yes, he did say that was fresh off the machine and he hadn't tidied up the 'support structure' ( whatever that means ). Being his second attempt, he reckons with more tweaks he can get a lot better.

At his age a cheeseburger may be inappropriate, but he'll go a few of these I am sure.

I am still researching the machines you put me onto by the way. 

 

 

[tlehnhaeuser]

sweet! I'm still eating cheeseburgers and now my shape would be better if I learned to walk on my hands.

[SSIMMONS]

Cheeseburger inappropriate! Gotta watch some George Motz regional burgers. Nice work on the printing quality.

- Spencer