bbuche Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 since I have done the hot fix I have been getting low memory errors. I was wondering if this is happening to anybody else. I am running 3gh w/ 3 gig of ram so I think I am pretty good on that but I just start a small scene and almost instantly I get low memory. We only load the catalogs we need now because of the way IronCAD loads all catalogs on startup (Which I wish they would change) but still getting the low memory, Any ideas from you guys Thanks B- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted January 9, 2008 Share Posted January 9, 2008 We are aware of the catalog issue and are investigating it. For now, avoid loading all the catalogs you have until we can correct that. Thanks Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbuche Posted January 9, 2008 Author Share Posted January 9, 2008 just wondering if there is anything else I can do to try and save on memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Gower Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 You should use the /3GB switch if you don't already have it turned on. There's more information in the forum on how to do that. I was having a video driver problem related to OpenGL. The CPU usage in the task manager was pegged all the time and I couldn't get anything done. I found out I could get some work done when I turned off OpenGL and used the software setting (v9). Finally when I found out recently they had a new driver, I installed it and the problem went away. You might look at video driver updates but keep track of the driver you are using. Before that I thought I had a problem with memory using only 2GB. Anyway, if you already use the /3GB switch and it doesn't help temporarily to turn off OpenGL here are a couple links you could look at. Maybe some information in there for you? http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791558.aspx http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=3743 http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=4251 -DG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Gower Posted January 10, 2008 Share Posted January 10, 2008 The software setting is under Tools (menu)> Options> Rendering (Tab) > Renderer/ Software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 You should use the /3GB switch if you don't already have it turned on. There's more information in the forum on how to do that. ... http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms791558.aspx http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=3743 http://www.crucial.com/kb/answer.aspx?qid=4251 -DG 20149[/snapback] I have the low-memory errors also, and the /3GB switch would not work on my computer. The display settings would not load. From the first link you supplied I found this: "On Windows XP, some drivers, especially video adapter drivers with onboard RAM, cannot run with the /3GB parameter because they require more address space than the 1 GB kernel address space permits." I guess I could install Vista, but I hate the thought of the potential downtime with that. So for now, I just save my work a lot. Dell Precision 390, 1.86 Ghz, XP Pro sp2, 4gb RAM Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Gower Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 I've seen low memory errors before, but don't remember what caused them. You might search in the forum for IronCAD performance tips (Mike Twining). There are some good tips in there that might help. I've tried disabling Hyperthreading like Mike suggested on Pentium 3 GHz and noticed multitasking slowed down, but it might help with IronCAD. It sounds like you might need to turn off something else that's running in the background, but I'm not sure and I can't think of anything else right off hand. -DG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 Don't install vista yet (IC will not install on vista yet - planned for PU1). It might be best to work with support directly to help track down the issues to see what may be the cause (number of external links, size of files, etc.) The 3GB is key in larger files and memory. If you can't get it running with onboard graphics, you may want to purchase a graphics card (it will help in real-time rendering performance as well). Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 "On Windows XP, some drivers, especially video adapter drivers with onboard RAM, cannot run with the /3GB parameter because they require more address space than the 1 GB kernel address space permits." 20155[/snapback] I don't know if it is either too involved to too time consuming, but if you feel you are having the above problem, there is a setting (USERVA) I believe that goes with the /3GB switch, which allows more control over the Windows/Application memory split. It'll allow you to fine tune your memory needs. As for the original post... ...the only thing I can think of is have a look at your pagefile settings. Are they rigidly defined (and if so, what are they set at), or is windows allowed to set them automatically? What else are you running in parallel with IronCAD, and what is using up all the memory. Truy running taskmanager (run->tskmgr.exe), selecting the Processes tab, and sort by Mem Usage (just click on the column header to sort). What is that showing you.... Right now (without IronCAD running), 4 of the top 5 memory hogs on my machine are system processes and IT oversignt/tracking software.... the other one is Outlook. I have been known (don't tell IT) to kill a tracking process to weasle some more power from a lagging machine, but you will need admin rights to do such things. The Windows Search Indexer is also a hog (that is one of my top 5). Personally, that never has to run if you ask me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 Don't install vista yet (IC will not install on vista yet - planned for PU1). It might be best to work with support directly to help track down the issues to see what may be the cause (number of external links, size of files, etc.) The 3GB is key in larger files and memory. If you can't get it running with onboard graphics, you may want to purchase a graphics card (it will help in real-time rendering performance as well). Cary 20159[/snapback] I forgot IC wasn't Vista-ready yet. I meant to include my graphics card in my previous post. It's a 128mb Nvidia Quadro FX550 that I got with the Dell. I figured all would be fine with a Quadro. As for the USERVA setting, from the explanation of it I didn't think it would apply to my situation with 4 gb installed, but I will read it again and see. Since I have a pretty common system and graphics card I figured many others were having the same problem so I was just waiting for the fix, but I guess I will talk to support about it. Besides the memory errors I am having lots of freeze-ups and other errors. The file I am currently working with is only 34mb, no external links. It does contain many freeform surfaces, and imported .obj meshes from my laser scanner. After using IC 6.0 for several years before upgrading, I am very impressed with all the new tools and capabilities in 10.0, and am looking forward to when the bugs are worked out. I went through it with IC in the early days, and with my CAM software, and recently with my laser scanning software. That's just life on the bleeding edge I guess! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I too use the Quadro FX550, although I don't seem to have any issues with the /3gb setting (although I only have 2G of RAM). I'm currently using the 81.76 driver if that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I don't know if it is either too involved to too time consuming, but if you feel you are having the above problem, there is a setting (USERVA) I believe that goes with the /3GB switch, which allows more control over the Windows/Application memory split. It'll allow you to fine tune your memory needs. ...snip... 20160[/snapback] You are right Mike (no surprise). I re-read the discription of the USERVA subparameter and gave it a try. I used 3030 for the setting, and now the system boots up with the proper display settings, and so far IronCAD seems to work well. BUT... After a reboot, it takes IronCAD over 6 minutes to load the first time! After that it loads fairly normally. Other programs also seem to load slower the first time, but not nearly like IC. I guess I can try lowering the number in the USERVA setting, but I can waste a lot of time doing it trial and error and going through reboots. If anyone has any knowledge of why it behaves this way I would love to know. I want to be able to use the /3gb switch, but the loading issue makes me wonder if some other problem is lurking. Thanks, Scott PS - Mike, I just saw your new post. The latest driver for the 550 is 162.65, which is what I am running. System specs: Dell Precision 390, 1.86 Ghz Core2Duo, XP Pro sp2, 4gb RAM, Nvidia Quadro FX550 128mb, Dual 19" monitors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 The slow startup may be related to the Catalog issue reported in another post. Do you have many catalogs or any that have a ton a data (or large file size)? Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 The slow startup may be related to the Catalog issue reported in another post. Do you have many catalogs or any that have a ton a data (or large file size)? Cary 20172[/snapback] No, I am only opening with the shapes and adv shapes catalogs open in my scenes now. But just to be clear, the 6+ minutes is just starting IC empty from the icon, not opening into a scene file. It takes 1 minute for just the splash screen to appear. It also appears that Internet Explorer is running slow now, and opening the add/remove programs in Control Panel takes several minutes to populate the list. And in those cases it's not just the first time it is run. It's not going to be practical to keep running the system this way even if IronCAD works well. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I'm not an IT person so I can't answer why the slow down on startup. I always use the 3GB setup but I never adjust the USERVA. I have an unreleased FX 500/600. Maybe some body else can answer more about the USERVA and what it can effect. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 (edited) I used 3030 for the setting, and now the system boots up with the proper display settings, and so far IronCAD seems to work well. 20170[/snapback] I would try throwing 2900 into the USERVA (the opposite end of the "approved" spectrum) and see how that works. With the 3030 number, your memory allocations are not that much different from just using the /3GB witout the USERVA. It sounds like you still have quite a bit of paging going on when starting your apps. You may want to open up taskmanager and watch the little yellow line on the performance tab when you start up applications... if you see some ramping up and then dropping off, you should give the system (or kernel) some more memory. Edited January 14, 2008 by Mike Twining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 14, 2008 Share Posted January 14, 2008 I would try throwing 2900 into the USERVA (the opposite end of the "approved" spectrum) and see how that works. With the 3030 number, your memory allocations are not that much different from just using the /3GB witout the USERVA. It sounds like you still have quite a bit of paging going on when starting your apps. You may want to open up taskmanager and watch the little yellow line on the performance tab when you start up applications... if you see some ramping up and then dropping off, you should give the system (or kernel) some more memory. 20178[/snapback] I put 2090 in, and IronCAD only took about half as long on the intitial startup as it did with 3030. Subsequent starts seem normal and other programs are loading fairly well. I'll just have to see if it actaully helps the original problem of memory errors. I can't believe the amount of memory all these little programs that sneak onto my computer use up. I need to do a housecleaning. Thanks for the suggestions. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) An update, in case it may help anyone else: I am now running the /3gb switch with the USERVA set to 2600. I ran the Windows Defrag utility, and found out my hard drive was very fragmented, including in the page file area. I figure this might slow the swapping, and maybe even cause an error during swapping. Just guessing. It defragged completely. I cleaned out things that had snuck into the startup menu. All those little "convenience" items can eat up some memory. Watching the Processes list in the Task Manager is quite educational. Sorting it with the big memory users at the top was eye-opening. The above items in addition to Mike's suggestions in another thread all add up, and I guess when you are pushing a system to it's limits every detail matters. Everything is running well now. I have only had one "a required resource was unavailable" error since the changes, but I have not been working on the same model as I was so it isn't conclusive. If the error problem is not a bug and just that people's systems are running out of available memory, IronCAD would hopefully give a low memory warning BEFORE it causes a problem, rather than freezing/crashing as mine was. Rhino and my laser software both do that. And, come to think of it they both stopped giving me that warning as soon as I added the 2gb of RAM. System specs: Dell Precision 390, 1.86 Ghz Core2Duo, XP Pro sp2, 4gb RAM, Nvidia Quadro FX550 128mb, Dual 19" monitors Scott Edited January 18, 2008 by swallis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I ran the Windows Defrag utility, and found out my hard drive was very fragmented, including in the page file area. 20276[/snapback] I take it your drives are formatted as FAT32? Theoretically (and the theory is not that sound if you ask me) NTFS is suppoed to be a lot better about preventing fragmentation of the hard drives. You do bring up a good point though, with FAT32 formatted hard drives you should occasionally de-frag to speed things up. Additionally, your pagefile was really fragmented due to the continual changes you were making to the USERVA setting (and chaining down the line to the pagefile seetings if your pagefile size is managed by windows). As you mentioned, a nice congurent pagfile will go a long way to increase performance, so any changes made to the pagefile size will greatly benefit from a de-frag. Plus, if you want to really group your pagefile, you should do a de-frag, re-boot, then de-frag again, as the OS won't want to give up all it's pagefile while it is running (and de-fragging). The re-boot should completely release the pagfile (much like quitting IronWood to completely release the memory it grabbed), such that upon re-boot, windows will re-create the pagefile (hopefully with a nice congruent chunk of hard drive space). Glad to hear you got that machine dialed in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Gower Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 This brings up a point I've been wondering about. Does anyone know? Would it make sense to have the the page file, the OS (Win XP Pro in my case), and IronCAD on a seperate drive (or partition) and the critical data on another seperate drive or partition? This makes sense to me, but what would be the best way to do this? I've read that it would help. I think that was here? http://www.magnacad.com/Printables/ICSpecs07.pdf - DG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Yes, my hard drive is FAT32 format. I didn't know that was more suseptible to fragmenting than NTFS. I can see how changing the USERVA setting would break the area up, but I also assume that all the crashes contribute greatly to the fragmenting, and if a crash occurs while it is paging it would cause a fragment in the pagefile? Seems logical. I went through many, many sytem crashes with my beta laser software until they figured out the problem, and I don't think I had defragged since then. Why bother, I've got 60 gigs of free space! Ha. I will try the double defrag, thanks. Mike, maybe you could add some of this to your "Getting the most out of junk" thread, in your spare time. Scott Edited January 18, 2008 by swallis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Speaking of crashes - after every few crashes it's a good idea to check your C:\Documents and Settings\..\Local Settings\Temp\ directory for leftover files. IronCAD writes files there while it is running & deletes them when it shuts down correctly. A crash that doesn't allow IronCAD to shut down and delete its temp files will leave them behind. Too many files in this directory will impact your system performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swallis Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 (edited) Speaking of crashes - after every few crashes it's a good idea to check your C:\Documents and Settings\..\Local Settings\Temp\ directory for leftover files. IronCAD writes files there while it is running & deletes them when it shuts down correctly. A crash that doesn't allow IronCAD to shut down and delete its temp files will leave them behind. Too many files in this directory will impact your system performance. 20289[/snapback] Wow. I had not checked the Temp directory in the last couple of weeks. It was clean except for some files from the 2 days when I was trying different settings with the /3gb switch, ...about 1600 .tmp files! I deleted them and did a defrag/reboot/defrag. Now the slow IC load after reboot quirk went away, and it loads faster on subsequent sessions too. When I get back into the surface model that I was working on before in a few days I will see if the memory error issues and other problems have been cured or not, but either way I know my system is in much better shape than before. Thanks again everyone for the help, and I hope that by keeping the thread going this long we have benefitted others also, maybe even the original poster. Scott Edited January 21, 2008 by swallis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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