Cary OConnor Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hi All, IronCAD is looking to make a change to the Scene Behavior in IronCAD 9.0 and we want some feedback. Purpose of Change: Currently in IronCAD, users can get into cases with external links where the structure may not make sense. For example: A user creates a file with a single part. He then links the file into another Assembly file. This linked file will appear as a part in the assembly file since only one part exists in the file (everything seems ok at this point). Next, the user opens the part file and drops a second part in the file. Now if he goes to the assembly file, it still only shows a single part (the original part). This is a little confusing to the user and it also causes issues in PDM systems since they try to extract Structure information from the files and in this case they do not match . ---This is one of the issues with this behavior (If you need more, let me know and I can provide more). Proposed Change: The IronCAD Scene will now have a new behavior (Refer to the Attached Show-Me). The Scene can be a Scene or an Assembly. It will be a scene when only a Part or a Top-Level Assembly exist when saving the file (Single Top-level Shape in other words). It will be a Assembly when multiple shapes are at the Top-level when saving the file. This assembly will have BOM information and will appear in Top-level or Indented BOM's created on the drawing. Following the Example listed in the Purpose of Change section, after the user adds the second part in the file, the scene would change to an Assembly on save. When the user opens an Assembly file that has a link to this part file that has now become an assembly, IronCAD will detect that the Part file has changed to an Assembly and it will ask the user the following: Save the Part currently linked as a New External Linked File to Maintain this structure or Update the Structure to match the linking scene (or to the current status of the linked file) and update the file with all the parts from the file. NOTE: This message will appear on any existing files that has the issues as described in the example above. Benefits to Change: The structure on an External links will match the structure of the linked file. Part links will only have a part in the file. An assembly link will have an assembly in the file. Basically it will make it clear for user that use external links what the exact structure of the file is. Please take a look and let me know if you have any questions of concerns with this change. Thanks, Cary SceneChange.EXE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Bertilsson Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Hi I think it sounds realy good. I have been confused myself of this. How will it act on 2D-shapes, 3D-curves placed on top-level, will they also be treated as parts? They are sometimes there only as guides (not real parts) / Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Currently 2D Shapes and 3D Curves are treated as Parts. We could look at the following: 1. Treat them as Part like today. 2. Use the Include in BOM setting in the Properties to determine if they are parts. Example: If the Include in BOM is not checked, then they will not be a Part, will not appear in linked files, and not shown in the BOM. Maybe add a default setting for newly created 2D Shapes and Curves. 3. Look at another Flag to set on the shape to tell it to treat as a part or not (This would most likely be on the Right-click menu). A Default setting would be available. This may become confusing with the BOM setting in the Part Properties. Let me know, Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Bertilsson Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 Maybe 1 is the best. As it is today. Because we have variants of it. - Not in bom but visible on drawing. - not in bom not on drawing. / Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 10, 2006 Author Share Posted April 10, 2006 Option #2 would only affect you if you wanted it in the BOM but you didn't want to treat it as a part in the structure (in other words... you want it to appear in BOM on the drawing but you do not want it in external links). And I guess visa versa...You don't want it in the BOM but you want it visible in all external links. If this is a major issue, than I would agree to leave it as is and it will make the scene an assembly if you have this and other parts at the top-level. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted April 10, 2006 Share Posted April 10, 2006 I often use 2d shapes set to appear in the BOM for drawings, but DO NOT want those 2d shapes to appear in any linked assemblies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cborer Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 I hope the assembly change will be as an option. I never use external linked files. I would not like it to have changes at save Maybe it would be better if IC asks: just assemblies are able to external link do you want to assemble? Thanks Carlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Carlo, Can you explain why you do not want this. This cannot be an option, otherwise users will still get into issues and we want to avoid this. This Scene Assembly does not affect the hittest (highlight) in the scene. Basically the Top Scene Icon changes and it has BOM information. It has no visual affect in the scene (meaning that it doesn't put that top level yellow assembly hit on the scene). Please let me know. Thanks, Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cborer Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Hi Cary As I understood the whole scene becomes one Assembly at save. Normaly my files are a mixture of Assemblies and parts. When I open a scene I would have to disassemble always. Am I wrong? Thanks Carlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Basically Carlo think of the scene as a container. It can be a Part/Assembly scene (where the file is either a single part or assembly at the top level created by the user) or an Assembly Scene (a scene with multiple parts and assemblies at the top level). You would not need to disassemble unless you wanted to later create your own Assembly top-level container that is visible and selectable in the scene environment. The Assembly Scene created by IronCAD does not appear in the scene and is not selectable in the environment other than the scene browser. It should not cause you any issues unless you have some sort of strange BOM structure. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cborer Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 Thanks Cary So this should not give a problem to me. To me its OK Carlo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted April 11, 2006 Share Posted April 11, 2006 It should not cause you any issues unless you have some sort of strange BOM structure. 13652[/snapback] ...thats all you had to say. Would there still be workarounds for whatever these "strange" BOM configurations are (like 2D shape BOM entries or something like that)? Either way... it appears to me as if there would not really be any neagtive consequences. Thumbs up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 11, 2006 Author Share Posted April 11, 2006 Well what I meant about strange BOM structure is....Say you have multiple parts and assemblies at the top-level (i.e. No Top-Level Assembly)....If you create an indented BOM, it really doesn't make sense in this case since there is not a root level. So if you are in the practice of creating this, then this proposed scene level assembly change may affect you. Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jkim522093 Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 This is great and this is what we really want to have. And as for the 2D shape or 3D curve, I like it to be treated as a part to be shown in the drawing. In JIG design, we usualy need the 3D curve data to be in drawing for the locator for the reference. So we extract 3D curve data from the Car panel in the scene, and this also appears on the drawing with the locator. And also it is nice that the top assembly created by the software(IronCAD) would not be selectable nor visible. Otherwise, users should make extra mouse clicks to disassemble always. Anyway, it's great and hope to see it asap. J.H. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Urban Olars Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 I guess we are an example of customer that is using a strange BOM structure. I have some problems to imagine how the proposed change change will affect us, so I feel a need for some feedback. We want IronCAD to read down the structure on some assemblies, while making a halt at others. The main problem comes later however when we still want a BOM that reads down the structure on assemblies that is set to Treat as part. Read the attached document for a better explanation. I hope you can understand it. BOM_structure.doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Bertilsson Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 How is it with anchor point for the "assembly". Will it be placed in the global zero point? This is important so things doesent fly around in the next level of asssembly as external link. / Marcus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgrein Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Hello Urban We use the same BOM structure, ran into the same problem and use a similar work around. (Top level only, instead of indented list.) Hello Cary: Would it be possible to change how "treat as part" & "expand" work for externally linked files? I want all externally linked files to be "treat as part" in an assembly. When I open these externally linked files, then they should be treated as "expand". The work around works, but not when I have bolts & nuts in a subassembly. (Automatically created by IronCAD.) I have to unassemble the subassembly so that all parts I want on the BOM are on the top level. This work around also works, but can get messy when I have many fasteners. (Indented list does not give me the BOM structure I want, as I do not want the fastener subassembly listed in the BOM & I do not want the parts indented.) If I could make a configuration in the externally linked file that would store whether it is "treat as part" or "expand" then that would solve my problem. This is getting off of the original topic, so move it to a new discussion if you want to. Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted April 12, 2006 Author Share Posted April 12, 2006 Marcus -- The Scene Assembly will be located at the Global 0,0,0. Urban - I don't think the change will affect you in your case. I understand your issue and we can make an ER. When we have a beta, please test out the scene assembly to see if it causes you issues. Thanks, Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted April 12, 2006 Share Posted April 12, 2006 Well what I meant about strange BOM structure is....Say you have multiple parts and assemblies at the top-level (i.e. No Top-Level Assembly)....If you create an indented BOM, it really doesn't make sense in this case since there is not a root level. So if you are in the practice of creating this, then this proposed scene level assembly change may affect you. Cary 13660[/snapback] I think we're good with this. We have multiple parts & assemblies at the top-level, but we don't use an indented BOM, so I don't see a problem for us. Nevertheless, I'll be sure to test it on the Beta. -Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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