Rick Dorrington

For those of you not exactly sure what all the fuss is about, check out: http://www.3dconnexions.com/articles/benefits.html http://www.3dconnexions.com/products/4000/ For a brochure in pdf format: http://www.3dconnexions.com/flyers/ For a list of software that actually does support these sorts of input devices: (Don't be too disappointed) http://www.3dconnexions.com/software/drivers/ For even more information: http://www.3dconnexions.com/ Your friend, Rick Seeing that the interest is back on the SpaceBall, I updated the links above for all the new visitors to this thread. 14Jan03

Yaaaaaaa. "A spacemouse on every workstation." Chant for 30 minutes every half hour until it's done.

Hmmm. I guess we'll take the lack of a response as a no. Thanks anyway,

In the old days when we used to receive drawings from customers they would sometimes send a drawing that had centre position coordinates for large numbers of similar holes in a table format. I'm sure you've all seen this before. We don't seem to mind not having these tables when we receive a model but unfortunately some other departments still need to know where the hole positions are. We have received some requests for hole position tables and frankly we're stymied. Any suggestions. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Round Two?

Really? Your dog ate it? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Dave, I checked out your website. With the type of work you're doing it can't be easy. It looks like you guys have your act together so I'm sure it will work out in the long run. The dongle. Sure, I'll bite. Suits me fine. Has anyone else noticed the conspicuous absence of any comment from the boys at head office? We know that you're watching us and it's beginning to freak us out. Oh Oh, pill time - Ok feel better now. When you guys manage to free yourself from between the rock and the hard place why not join in. Just remember that the dongle has its problems too. There is a cost involved at IronCads end. They will pass it on somehow. You might not see it directly but I'm sure it will be hidden somewhere along the line. AA increase? By the way. I've been wondering if anyone can tell me what the installed user base is for IronCad, and what percentage of users are on AA? It's hard to really get a good grip on these issues without having an idea about the numbers. Cheers Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

scharlton I don't have any doubt that you paid for your license. You deserve to be able to use the software on any computer you choose, so long as your actions aren't contrary to the terms of the license agreement. Getting something for free wasn't really the issue - WORKING for free was. Let's say that you design some cool thing that solves the hunger problem and leads to world peace and then the aliens show up to be our friends because now we're really cool. You would own the rights to this thing, and you deserve the rewards. This is what the software companies are trying to do. These license schemes are an attempt to provide legitimate customers the ability to use the product while keeping the bad guys from stealing it. Now we all know that the fine IronCad users would never do anything like that but what about the bad guys. They are everywhere. They probably follow us all around just trying to get their hands on our copy of IronCad. Sometimes I can't sleep at night worrying about it. Your situation is not unlike ours. One workstation- one user- one copy of IronCad. If you upgrade/replace your computer I would expect IC to issue you a new key pronto so you could enjoy the benefits of using the software that you paid for. Now if they can't do this THEN you raise the war flag and off we go. I'll be right behind you. But wait, what if a bad guy is around He decides that while you are getting a new license for your new workstation - legitimately of course - that he is going to steal your old computer and use IC while you're not looking. How does IC ensure that your old key doesn't function anymore? Good Question - I don't know. The honour system? (Canada eh) So here we go again, back where we started. The point of all this is that the software companies are just trying to protect their intellectual rights while providing their real customers with quality customer service, while at the same time reducing their costs and maximizing profits. The exact same thing that we are all trying to do. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that IC shines in this area. Unfortunately they don't have much control over the methods that they can choose from to do this. Other companies think up these ideas because there is a need for them. (Beacuse of the Bad Guys) Dongles/keys/noodles or whatever. This new scheme comes right from Redmond. (Recall the big house on the big hill) If you can come up with a better way then you might strike oil. Personally, I haven't been able to. So we ride the wave and hope it works out. I haven't heard of anyone actually having a problem with this scheme yet, so maybe it's all a big todo about nothing. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Hey Dave. Sounds like you may have worked for us in another life. Bet you heard something like this before, or maybe even said it. "Well we learned a lesson on this one and we'll have to make it up on the next job." Took me awhile to figure out how you got the smiley guy in your post. Now you've unleashed the mad dog. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Hey Dave. Sounds like you may have worked for us in another life. Bet you heard something like this before, or maybe even said it. "Well we learned a lesson on this one and we'll have to make it up on the next job." Took me awhile to figure out how you got the smiley guy in your post. Now you've unleashed the mad dog. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

I don't have a problem with the dongle. We have lots of them. My post was not directed at anybody in particular, just the general feel of the topic. If I offended anyone then I sincerely apologize to them. Please forgive me. One of the things that I have always admired about these discussions is the lack of flaming. I certainly don't want to be the one to change that. Our Cam software running with a Network License uses a dongle, as I said before we like it, it works for us. On the other hand we have dongles on our old systems and have been through several nightmares with the vendor because they can't keep their records straight. No doubt that IronCad would do a first class job keeping records, but just think about the logistics of keeping track of dongles across the planet. Dongles work but they can be a pain in the backside. Has anyone ever legitimately lost a dongle and had to endure the agonizing pain of having to get a new one? Or worse yet, sending a dongle back for reconfigure and having the vendor tell you they never got it and don't know anything about it. (This happened to us) We are also a small company rubbing shoulders with the giants. We feel the pain just like anybody else, but the reality is that good product and support costs money. How many of you are working for free? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

The solution? Well, I see two ways around this.(See disclaimer above) The first is to plop down your 400 bucks and get a telecommuter license (TL). I think that IC is being pretty generous here considering that there is no AA tied to your TL. Now you can do whatever you want with it within the bounds of the license agreement. Seems pretty fair. Or, you could play by the rules and; You could uninstall IC before you go home every night from your desktop system and install it on your laptop or run home and put it on your home system. Keep calling IC for a new license to do this. In the morning just reverse the procedure. One of two things will happen, either you will give up and decide that the 400 smackers is probably not a bad deal or if you have the stamina to keep it up for awhile then IC might decide that this situation is just too much and give you a TL. Either way it's a sweet deal. Everybody wins. Now the flipside. Just in case you think I have some divine interest in IronCads' fortune, I don't. Although I do think that they are one of the finest outfits I've every had to deal with. I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. jmouser. We too are a pirate free organization and darned proud of it. I do think however that the Network License Scheme is a bit much. We use this type of thing with our CAM software and it cost us $1000.00 (Loonies that is, and no maintenance). It works great for us and would gladly use it for IC if the price was reasonable. $3450 US plus $1250 AA is shameful. If you have alot of users and can balance the cost/license versus your IT costs then it might make sense, but not for the majority. Why not tie the cost to the number of IC licenses that a company owns? This way the cost/license is standardized and the little guy gets the same benefits as the big guy. Be warned that it does have a downside in that if your server goes down you're kind of snook'd. (This is where I highly recommend IBM servers; not that they don't go down (they do, trust me) but when they do and you need service IBM drops an army onto your front door in a real hurry.) PS. I just read what Dave Parish had to say and it reinforces what I was saying earlier. This license scheme could end up being such a pain in the behind for IC that they have to come up with some other way. The terds are just starting to hit the fan. Keep low men. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

OK, time to chime in. The following opinions could be mine, depending on whether you agree or not. I have been waiting for someone at IronCad to set this straight but they probably don't want to make any more waves than they have to. All this bleeding heart crap about licenses; Oh I don't feel like I own the software and I should be able to do what I want stuff is for the birds. If anybody has bothered to read their license agreement they might find things like this: "Page 1, First thing: ATTENTION: THIS IS A LICENSE, NOT A SALE." Read: We let you use it when we feel like it if you're good, but you don't own it buddy. "Page 1, Section 4: This agreement and any attachments blah blah etc" Read: We don't care what some guy said to you about using this software, if you don't have it in writing and signed by us then go fly a kite. Next paragraph alludes to the fact that if you install the software then you have in fact agreed to the terms of the license; no if's, and's or but's. If you don't like it then send it back for a refund. (Hmmm, is that a stampede?) "Page 2, Section 5: ...a non-exclusive license to use only ONE copy of the software on ONE computer, processor or controller at ONE time etc. Read: Pretty self explanatory, but check out the defenition of "Use" to see that if you make a backup copy on another computer then you can't actually "use" it anywhere else. Sounds pretty harsh don't you think. Well, not really - this is pretty standard stuff and most of us have agreed to this many times over with many companies out there. If you really want a laugh then read one of the agreements next time you install a patch from microsoft. You will find something to the effect that their liability is limited to the grand total of 5 dollars (That's George Washingtons, not loonies).No kidding, look near the end. The point? Ironcad is not doing anything that you the user have not agreed to. Just because you "could" put the software on 2 or more computers and maybe you had "part time" users or whatever the case may be doesn't mean it was right, or within your rights. And just because you circumvented the rules and somebody turned a blind eye doesn't justify the argument that you should be able to do it now. The argument that IronCad (IC) has messed up with the licensing method is a bit misdirected. If you have a problem with this then just wait until next year when you might like to try XP. This anger should be directed to where it belongs - Big Bill who lives in the big house on the big hill in Washington State. You the user demand that your software runs pretty good and that it is compatible with just about any possible combination of 87 Bagillion ways to put a computer together. For a software company to do this means they have to follow the rules that the Microrobbers set down for them. This is why you are where you are today. Continued next post. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Ahh, the truth shall set you free. All this time your readers were led to believe that there was a way to have an intelligent title block - something beyond the sample provided. Further, that this was possible to do within IronCad with just a little pain. ( Noodle bruises) Should we run out and buy VB or will it be possible to do some of this stuff soon enough in IronCad that we should just wait? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

First, apologies to B. Ludin. This discussion goes back to the days of the old board. It seems to crop up from time to time. Secondly, thanks to Chris for jumping in to explain. In our environment we must deal with a constant stream of electonic data. This data comes in from the outside world and intermingles with data that we produce in-house. (Design/Manufacture/Design & Manufacture) Working in an ISO 9000 environment (And the soon to be famous ISO9000/2000) requires a pretty good handle on the whereabouts and condition/status of this data. Hence we spawn TeamVault and other products like it for EDM/PDM (Electonic Data Management/Product Data Management) or whatever the TLA (Three Letter Acronym) of the day is. So - Having a system whereby all parties involved in data management/creation which allows for standardiziation across the organization, is easy to use, and discourages users from adding their own individual touches becomes an important issue. (I've always done it this way -or I can't find my file because I named it something and I don't know where it went) Now back to the title block thing. This sample VBA project allows a user to enter data into predefined fields (similiar to a database) that popup in a window when you select the tool from the toolbar. When you're happy with the data you entered you then hit the update button and the data magically appears in your title block, as well as in your Properties Dialogue Box under the File Menu. (Of course, to make it work you have to eat fire while simultaneously standing on one leg while 3 co-workers beat you senseless with pool noodles.) This sample supplied by IC is pretty basic. We are taking the opportunity while upgrading to V5.0 to implement the Intelligent Title Block. Chris, yes you can get into the VBA editor with [alt-F11] except that as stated on page 1-23 (paragraph 2) of the manual; "VBA is currently available for scenes only." Invoking the VBA editor when in the drawing environment leaves you looking at pretty much nothing. So now begs the question, Why provide a sample to show how to use an intelligent title block if you can not then customize the sample to your individual needs? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Believe it or not we actually have the title block thing working. Now we would like to customize it to our preference. How do we get into the project in VB when VBA doesn't work in the drawing environment? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Chris, Kevin phoned me and we tested the numbers. 7532 does not work but 7304 does work. Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Same situation here. Are we being assigned to a lesser importance? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

Thanks Chris. I went back to check again to see if I had missed something. I created a scene and tried to quit without saving and was prompted to save. I then checked the file that this strangeness occurred with and was also prompted to save. Baffling. The user informs me that his computer had been acting up so he shutdown/restarted this morning and now everything seems to be working just fine. Thanks Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

While offering some help to one of our users recently I noticed an odd thing. When I closed the file to enable the user to go back to where he was , the file closed without a save prompt. Sure enough on re-opening the file the changes I had made were still there. Naturally I assumed that there was an autosave feature enabled but we have searched high and low and cannot find such a feature anywhere. Is there autosave in Ironcad? If not, why would this users system be behaving in this manner? Rick Dorrington aero-safe technologies inc.

We have the same problems with the overlay plane. IBM Intellistation M-Pro P4-1500 Fire GL-2. The GL-2 card is very good in most cases with IronCad. We run with overlay plane turned off and automatic. An interesting sidenote to this configuration. The GL-2 card has a digital output and our IBM P260 monitors have a digital input. Good news except that we have to run a 15 pin analog/digital adaptor because IBM doesn't know how to run a cable between the different digital connectors. ( I guess the "standards" are different, how dumb!) From the IronCad Help: Overlay Plane. This option is usually supported only by high-end graphics cards and may require edits to your systems Display options. Select this option to use an overlay plane for line display on parts. This results in greater rendering speed by eliminating full re-draw each time the part is selected or modified. If this option is selected, overlay plane is supported by system hardware, and Automatic is specified as the Renderer, IronCAD will automatically activate OpenGL rendering full-time in the scene

What about support for the SpaceBall?