Passing Decals

[tcooksey]

I am trying to export an Iron Cad model to be rendered by someone using Keyshot.

This model has several decals, but I have not found a format that will allow me to pass this information.

I know OBJ and 3DS formats have this capability, but they do not seem to work.

 

Has anyone had an experience with this?

 

Thanks,

Troy

 

 

 

 

[Cary OConnor]

I'm not sure if Keyshot can read in the textures. They have an api to allow connection to their application that we will request to see if we can make a better integration in the future. Using that approach, I assume we can include the textures.

 

Cary

[tcooksey]

I'm not sure if Keyshot can read in the textures. They have an api to allow connection to their application that we will request to see if we can make a better integration in the future. Using that approach, I assume we can include the textures.

 

Cary

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I think that would be a good approach as it seems to be difficult to positionally manipulate a model in Keyshot as well and configurations ( at least as we know them ) do not appear to exist.

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

[mwalls558626]

Passing a decal in a 3D PDF would be useful too. Any chance of that being implemented?

 

Mike

[tcooksey]

I'm not sure if Keyshot can read in the textures. They have an api to allow connection to their application that we will request to see if we can make a better integration in the future. Using that approach, I assume we can include the textures.

 

Cary

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Cary,

 

If we can help you bench mark this, just let us know.

Our client wants us to generate renderings of our IC designs to be used for package art.

 

Thanks,

Troy

 

[Cary OConnor]

Hi Troy,

 

What are the items that Keyshot offers over the current rendering? Is it just the ease of use or are there specific features?

 

Cary

[tcooksey]

Hi Troy,

 

What are the items that Keyshot offers over the current rendering? Is it just  the ease of use or are there specific features?

 

Cary

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I would certainly prefer not to use another product for rendering, but we have really not had much success getting really nice renderings from IC's photo realistic renderer.

 

We have experienced glitchy renderings, limited image size, and long rendering times.

 

It could certainly be operator error, but we have put a fair amount of time over the years that this type of rendering has been available, trying to utilize it.

 

I think this is where Keyshot excels, pretty simple to use.

From my understanding, they had similar useability issues until they included a variety of preset setups that allow you to start getting pretty good renderings with minimal effort.

When we export a file out to it, even with the diffuse colors that step and parasolid pass, you immediately start to get a really nice 3D look ( and really fast ).

Their recent inclusion of PMS colors is also a big plus.

 

Where it falls apart is the ability pose and position models accurately, accept decal maps, and lack of configurations. On a file format like 3ds that can pass image maps, Keyshot locks up.

 

This is why I thought the API might be a good compromise, simply utilizing KS for rendering and IC for all of the setup.

 

Our current plan of attack is to build the image maps as actual 3D parts in the Iron Cad scene by intersecting the graphics outlines extruded as solids with a very slightly thickened shell of the part the graphics go on to.

Basically creating 3D representations of the paint operations rather than an image map.

This will then be passed on to Key Shot for color refinement and rendering.

 

This is certainly more effort than I want to put forth on this.

Our clients tend to fall in the lower price tier of consumer product development, so spending lots of time to get a good rendering is typically not cost effective.

In this particular case, it will be used as package art which typically involves building and painting physical models and having a fairly expensive photo shoot.

Most of the time it is just for presentation purposes, so it is just extra cost rather than replacing a very expensive way of doing things.

 

Here is a link to some Key Shot images

 

http://www.wired.com/design/2013/03/luxion...#slideid-146702

 

The image of the Lego set is pretty much exactly what we are trying to achieve.

 

If you think this is achievable with IC rendering, then I would appreciate any advice, hints, tutorials you might be able to provide.

I don't look forward to forking out $2k when our Keyshot trial is up.

 

Thanks,

Troy

 

 

 

 

 

[jkim522093]

This is one of the chronical issues for the combination of 3D CAD and animation application application for photo-realistic image and animation creation.

Export file format for 3D CAD is so limited and there is no format to be imported into 3D animation package like 3D Studio max, Cinema 4D, Maya and also KeyShot.

Only obj or 3ds might be used for 3D CAD while 3D animation tools prefer to get FBX, DAE or Collada file format for compatibility.

 

3D CAD now supports photo-realistic rendering feature and supports GI as its feature, so it can create superb quality of image.

But it is not rendering or animation tool but design tool, and 3D artists don't use 3D CAD for image and animation creation.

And 3D designers usually don't know how to create photo-realistic image & animation creation for visualization.

The reason why KeyShot has success is simply two as follows;

1.It is easy to use hence the 3D designers who don't know about GI and sort of can use. They don't have to set the complicated attributes like lighting, shadow, and so on.

2.It creates really high quality rendering in real time.

So designers can create the high quality of image for front panel of new TV, for example, then they print it out in real TV size, and then put in in the room to evaluate the design with their boss and customers.

At this kind of design review, there might be some pointing for the design change.

Then designers do the change there using 3D CAD and then send it to KeyShot for revised image in a min.

 

Anyway, it is a real challenge for the 3D visualization artist to import the 3D model from 3D CAD.

Sometimes different parts with same color are grouped as same part, textures are not transferred, and so on.

 

Some sort of more effective way is needed in the workflow from 3D CAD to 3D rendering & animation tool, anyway...

 

 

JH

 

[tlehnhaeuser]

Recently I have been playing with modeling in IronCAD and rendering in Blender. After playing with blender, its apparent that for a free program it is the most powerful rendered and animation bar none. What I like about Blender for rendering is its unlimited to what you can render or animate and with a few clicks you have amazing renders. It has realtime render which is extremely nice to see your modifications change before your eyes.

 

If there was a way to somehow integrate Blender into IronCAD, this would be the ultimate scenerio.

[tcooksey]

Recently I have been playing with modeling in IronCAD and rendering in Blender. After playing with blender, its apparent that for a free program it is the most powerful rendered and animation bar none. What I like about Blender for rendering is its unlimited to what you can render or animate and with a few clicks you have amazing renders. It has realtime render which is extremely nice to see your modifications change before your eyes.

 

If there was a way to somehow integrate Blender into IronCAD, this would be the ultimate scenerio.

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Tom,

 

What file format do you use to go from IC to Blender?

Do decals pass through?

 

Troy

 

 

[tlehnhaeuser]

Troy,

I tried OBJ, 3DS, and WRL but none pass the decals. However, maybe theres a setting somewhere in Blender, I would need to investigate this, becuase IronCAD spits out the decal textures when exporting to 3DS and WRL with a manifest file so it seems like it should work.

 

If I figure it out, I'll let you know.

T

[tcooksey]

Troy,

I tried OBJ, 3DS, and WRL but none pass the decals. However, maybe theres a setting somewhere in Blender, I would need to investigate this, becuase IronCAD spits out the decal textures when exporting to 3DS and WRL with a manifest file so it seems like it should work.

 

If I figure it out, I'll let you know.

T

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Those are the typical formats I have tried with KS, because they can include this info.

OBJ never seems to work in anything.

I think there is some issue with path names in OBJ ( can't have more than 8 characters or something like that ).

The .obj can't find its .mtl file and it just imports with default gray color.

3DS crashes KS.

I will also let you know if we figure out anything.

How does Blender render? Fast? Good quality? Easy to use?

Got any shots?

 

Troy

 

 

 

 

[ysinitsyn]

Export to OBJ is buggy

http://www.ironcad.com/support/community/i...pic=8536&hl=obj

So now it is not possible to do what you want.

 

But, theoretical, OBJ can

http://www.ironcad.com/support/OnlineHelp/...t_OBJ_Files.htm

 

[tcooksey]

Export to OBJ is buggy

http://www.ironcad.com/support/community/i...pic=8536&hl=obj

So now it is not possible to do what you want.

 

But, theoretical, OBJ can

http://www.ironcad.com/support/OnlineHelp/...t_OBJ_Files.htm

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Thanks!

Forgot about this.

I guess I am getting senile.

 

Troy

 

 

[ysinitsyn]

http://www.ironcad.com/support/OnlineHelp/..._VRML_Files.htm

Exporting VRML Files

If you’re exporting a part with decals, it is suggested that you use the Write images option to save the decal textures in files. When you save a decal image using this technique, the border of the decal is changed to the color of the underlying part. The result appears as an authentic decal in the VRML world.

 

I tried it. Something happened, but not good quality.

Another way, is a manual painting of texture. Fill the "see thru" color of texture by the color of the part.

 

Offtopic:

about render

http://www.ironcad.com/support/community/i...indpost&p=33801

Edited May 3, 2013 by ysinitsyn

[tlehnhaeuser]

Troy, I am in the process of evaluating Blender becuase I need to model things lately like splashes, smoke, and dripping effects which Blender can do and very easily once you understand particles.

 

The rendering in Blender is phenominal once you understand ( like anything). The nice thing is realtime render ( render cycles) and you can get nice quality renderings fast with minimal setup. I want to get GREAT renders which require the use of NODES which is an entirely new world for me. But theres a ton of videos on youtube which makes learning much easier. After playing with it for about a month and watching a boatload of videos, I still need more learing but I feel once I get it Blender will do ANYTHING you need it to do, its truly an amzing rendering and animation tool!!!!

 

Atatched is a video of an Ocean animation, it was created with about 5 clicks and then took 24 hours to render and create animation, amazing.

 

Ocean.mp4

[cborer]

Cannot open it!

[jolizon590016]

Hi Guys,

 

Something to the side of Blender. Check this out if you haven't: http://www.rab3d.com/index.php. He has done things with blender and created some tutorials.

 

Regards.

[tcooksey]

Troy, I am in the process of evaluating Blender becuase I need to model things lately like splashes, smoke, and dripping effects which Blender can do and very easily once you understand particles.

 

The rendering in Blender is phenominal once you understand ( like anything). The nice thing is realtime render ( render cycles) and you can get nice quality renderings fast with minimal setup. I want to get GREAT renders which require the use of NODES which is an entirely new world for me. But theres a ton of videos on youtube which makes learning much easier. After playing with it for about a month and watching a boatload of videos, I still need more learing but I feel once I get it Blender will do ANYTHING you need it to do, its truly an amzing rendering and animation tool!!!!

 

Atatched is a video of an Ocean animation, it was created with about 5 clicks and then took 24 hours to render and create animation, amazing.

 

Ocean.mp4

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Tom,

 

Sorry for late response as I have been out of town.

Wow.

That looks great.

Have you done any modeling in IC that you have passed to Blender for rendering?

 

Troy

 

 

[tcooksey]

Hi Guys,

 

Something to the side of Blender. Check this out if you haven't: http://www.rab3d.com/index.php. He has done things with blender and created some tutorials.

 

Regards.

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Thanks,

Will check it out.

 

 

[tlehnhaeuser]

Tom,

 

Sorry for late response as I have been out of town.

Wow.

That looks great.

Have you done any modeling in IC that you have passed to Blender for rendering?

 

Troy

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Short answer Ye, but still not proficent in Blender yet, so have alot to learn. I have noticed though that learning blender actaully helps me understand IronCAD's rendering better since the principles are very close.

 

[Cary OConnor]

Yes (and there is a Yafray plugin somewhere for blender). So the terms are similar. I think there is a old forum somewhere for blender and yafray.

 

Cary