Guest tcooksey Posted March 14, 2004 Share Posted March 14, 2004 I recently had a project that consisted of about 400 parts, mostly linked in files. During the generation of an icd, I would get a few views generated, then a low virtual memory warning and the drawing would fail to generate. I was using an out of the box HP Pavilion / 1.8 GHz expanded to 1 Gig of ram. Okay, time for a new computer. I now have a new HP Pavilion / 3.0 GHz expanded to 2 Gig of ram. I now get a low memory warning on the same file during opening of the IC scene, at about the time the assembly appears on the screen. I can not even start to generate a drawing. I have been running Windows XP Home on both boxes. I have made sure that the virtual memory settings are maxed out. I have tried letting the system manage the memory as well as trying custom settings. The new system has a 128 Mb video card as opposed to the old one that had a 32 Mb card. I have restarted the system to make sure the memory is cleared out. Typically no other apps running. It seems very odd that the new system would run out of memory ( with twice as much ) sooner on the same file. Has anyone encountered a similar problem? or have any suggestions? I can expand up to 4 Gig, but this does not seem to be the primary problem. Thanks, Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Andersson Posted March 15, 2004 Share Posted March 15, 2004 IronCAD does not support XP home. I dont now if that may cause the memory problems. Robert Andersson Solidmakarna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tcooksey Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 Actually IC 6 and previous versions have run fine on the home edition, even though IC says they only support Pro. I have probably seen fewer bugs than many of the ones reported. I would perhaps agree with you if the problem I have seen was running on different versions, but they were both running on the Home Edition. Thanks, Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted March 16, 2004 Share Posted March 16, 2004 You may want to try the 3Gig Memory Configuration as mentioned in the IronCAD 6.0 ReadMe notes. Cary ============================================================================ 3Gig Memory configuration * For users with large models that are experiencing "out of memory" or "low on memory" messages from within IronCAD: IronCAD has been configured to run in "Large Address aware" mode. In this mode, the application is able to take advantage of 3GB of memory instead of the default 2GB allowed by the operating system. To effectively use this Large Address capability the boot.ini file must be modified on your system to include the flag "/3GB". Following is an example of how your boot.ini should appear after the /3GB switch has been added. This example was copied from, and further information regarding this switch may be found at the following web address: http://www.microsoft.com/hwdev/platform/server/PAE/PAEmem.asp. Warning: Incorrect edits to your boot.ini file may prevent your system from booting entirely. Insure that you have a backup copy of the boot.ini file before editing it. IronCAD LLC claims no responsibility for any damages caused to your system by editing this file. Proceed at your own risk. ====example DEFAULT boot.ini===== [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="????" ====example EDITED boot.ini===== [boot loader] timeout=30 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINNT="????" /3GB As you can see in the "EDITED" boot.ini section above, the only change made was adding the "/3GB" flag to the bottom line. This is all that is required to make use of that additional gig of memory. Notes: - The boot.ini file is a hidden/system file. To see it you will need to enable the showing of hidden/system files through Tools/Folder Options in Windows Explorer (My Computer). - The boot.ini file is typically a read-only file. You may need to edit its properties and uncheck the "read-only attribute" before you are able to save it. - The boot.ini file may be edited with Notepad found in Start/Programs/Accessories. - Insure that you add the /3GB flag to the [operating systems] entry in the boot.ini, not the [boot loader] entry. - The 3gig limit is a total limit of RAM and Virtual Memory combined. - In addition to a ram limitation, you may also receive "out of memory" errors due to a lack of available space on your "C" drive. IronCAD relies on building temporary files during its normal operation so if it is unable to create those files, it will then tell you that it's out of memory. When encountering an out of memory error, always first insure that you have more than 1 gig of currently available space on your "C" drive, or wherever your %temp% environment variable points to. - The 3gig limit is the total "allocated" memory. When using the windows Task Manager you are viewing the "used" memory. The task manager does not accurately display the information that pertains to this limit. Due to this limitation of the task manager, you may be hitting the 2 or 3 gig limit from within IronCAD, but the task manager may only show that you are using 1.4 gigs of memory. If IronCAD tells you that you are running low on memory, AND you have more than a gig of currently available space on your "C" drive (or wherever your %temp% environment variable points to), then it is safe to assume that you are hitting the memory limit (even if the task mana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tcooksey Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 Thanks Cary. I will give this a try. Troy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cary OConnor Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 One additional comment that was suggested: Make the boot file have a dual boot option in case it will not boot with the 3GB switch setting. In order to do this, instead of editing the line in the boot file, add an additional line as follows: [boot loader] timeout=10 default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS [operating systems] multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional 3GBBoot" /fastdetect /3GB multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(2)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Professional" /fastdetect Add the name (For Example: I used 3GBBoot) so that you can see which option is which on the boot of your machine. The first line in will be the default boot order. So if your boot fails the first time, you can always switch to the other boot option to get your computer running . Cary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per-Arne Almeflo Posted March 17, 2004 Share Posted March 17, 2004 quote: Originally posted by Cary OConnor: You may want to try the 3Gig Memory Configuration as mentioned in the IronCAD 6.0 ReadMe notes. Cary id=quote>id=quote> If you suggest 3GB memory for 400 parts what do you suggest for designs with 4000 parts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per-Arne Almeflo Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Will IC 7.0 solve these large assembly issues or should we look elsewhere? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Floris Stam Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 If you suggest 3GB memory for 400 parts what do you suggest for designs with 4000 parts? 30Gb off course (sorry could not resist) Floris Stam IronCAD.nl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lohman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Setting up the boot.ini with both switches is a VERY good idea! Actually the 3GB switch does more than just free up 3GB; it also exposes the threshold at which the OS will release the memory. From our (exhaustive) testing on this matter we found that with the default 2gb limit, IRONCAD would hit the limit and then go nuts/crash. With the 3GB limit, IRONCAD would actually use about 2.4 gigs of memory and then suddenly the memory usage would jump back down to something like 500 megs and then climb back up to 2.4, then recycle back to 500 over and over. The developer explained to me that after IRONCAD uses memory and is finished with the data in memory (which occurs very quickly), IRONCAD marks the data has being ready for reuse. If you're in the middle of an operation though, the operating system doesn't get around to freeing up that marked memory however until it gets up into that higher range. (Once the operation finishes then it flushes the memory) So what I found was that while the default 2GB could only handle something like 400 parts (it also depends very heavily on the complexity of the parts); the 3GB would reuse the memory more efficiently and could thus handle several thousand parts. Of course, once you're using those high amounts of memory, you really should have that much RAM as well. Once you hit the pagefile, IRONCAD is going to slow down by 3-500% (because your pagefile is on your hard disk and your disk is that much slower than ram). So while the 3GB limit may prevent crashing, it may also slow ironcad down to a crawl (because you're using pagefile). So with something like 4000 parts, the recommendation would still be the /3GB limit (because the OS won't let us go higher) but it would also be "ideal" to have 4 gigs of ram (3 for ironcad, 1 for the OS) for optimum speed. And of course (I have to say this), since you're using an operating system that we do not test on nor do we certify will run IronCAD (that being XP Home), everything that we ever say about IronCAD and the OS can not be guaranteed to apply to XP Home. (Honestly though, XP Home is just missing the domain networking stuff in XP Pro so XP Home *should be fine* for running IronCAD {and I've had many people tell me that it -is- fine}. We just can't say that it is officially certified for use with IronCAD) id=size1>id='Arial'> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lohman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 For those that are unable to boot with the /3GB limit enabled, you can acquire a patch for this by reading this Microsoft Knowledge Base Article: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb%3ben-us%3b328269 . Note: Be aware that mtwining has used this patch and believes that it may be the source of some flakiness in his OS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I think "some" flakiness might be a bit of an understatement. My computer has not been what you call "stable" since. I am in the que with our IT guys to get my whole computer reformatted and re-installed, and I am not going to install the so-called patch this time unless I really have to. Be warned, that you can't just download the patch, you have to call Microsoft directly to get it, and in doing so they tell you that it is a "beta" fix... the (not so educated) tech support (We have been spoiled by the IronTECH guys), I think was using a Mac, but anyway, I didn't get a warm-fuzzy feeling after talking with her. Either way, my personal advice to anyone who tries to use the /3gb and gets an un-bootable computer: Forget the patch, try to find another computer! MikeT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Per-Arne Almeflo Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 quote: Originally posted by Mike Twining: Either way, my personal advice to anyone who tries to use the /3gb and gets an un-bootable computer: Forget the patch, try to find another computer! MikeT id=quote>id=quote> Have you any record of usable/unusable computers/motherboards with this setting? Are e.g. Intel motherboards ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Allen Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 The Dell GX240, which has an Intel chipset, works fine with the 3GB switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 All I know is that I am runnig a Dell Precision 450 (Intel Xeon), and I get no love without the patch. MikeT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Lohman Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 ...and I'm running a Dell Precision 450 with Xeon and it's running just fine. We just used the /3GB switch on an XP workstation with a FireGL2 card and for some reason the display resolution wouldn't work in /3GB mode. Note that this /3GB switch is supposed to work better in XP SP2 (which I have been beta testing and so far it has been great, by the way) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Jan Lyttbacka Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 Hi! I'm running a Dell Precision 650 with Xeon 3gb ram and VildCat7110 and I can not boot with the /3gb (have not tried the beta patch) Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Parrish Posted March 25, 2004 Share Posted March 25, 2004 Hi all, I have one assembly with nearly 500 parts in it. While it takes a while to load, I have never had a problem with my machine running out of memory. I am running XP Pro on an AMD Chip with 1 Gig of RAM. While there are some obvious hardware differences, I feel that the problem could be in the OS. While RAM is cheap, I'd like to point out that all versions of XP and 2000 are not initially optimized for more than 512 Meg of RAM. TweakXP, WINner Tweak, and many tweak programs out there that address this issue and other resource and memory issues. Joel Parrish www.pai-design.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
handersson Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 Info from a user, this did work for them: 1. XP with /3GB boot.ini + patch 2. Get XP updates (from Microsoft online) 3. Install IC 6.0 - No PU2(!), just 6.0. No low memory probl. after this. No boot probl. after this. Henrik Solidmakarna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Twining Posted March 27, 2004 Share Posted March 27, 2004 I just got through my second re-install in 3 days, and just for kicks I thought I would try the /3gb switch, not expecting much (the last 2 installs required the patch for the /3gb switch to work)... and low and behold she booted right up. I have no idea what the difference could be, but it is working now....patch free. MikeT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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