Selecting a CAD workstation

[wfincher]

I need some input on selecting a CAD workstation. Can someone explain why I should go for a Dell or Xi rather than buy a computer from Cyberpower. We plan to design casting and pattern tooling using IronCAD and do CAM work using Esprit. Looks like you can buy a 2.80GHz machine w/ 1G ram for much less than either a Dell Precision 340 or an Xi. Can't get the ATI Fire fire GL8800 128 MB video card I want on the Cyberpower so I would have to buy it from another source. I think I'm missing something. I need some help in explaining to my boss why I need to spend an extra $1000.

 

Bill Fincher

[Chris Lohman]

For business I buy dell, for home I buy clones.

 

With Dell you have everything to support you after the sale in one place.

 

With Dell you have a single point of contact for all warranty issues. I always get the next day on site support contract and I have used it at least once for every Dell that I've owned. For the span of 3 years if something breaks, I don't have to go through any hassled to get the hardware fixed. On my clone I usually end up haggling with someone in Taiwan at 2 in the morning to get the cd burner replaced under warranty, for example.

 

For drivers and online support everything you need is on the dell website instead of spread across 10 different vendor sites.

 

Dell optimizes their hardware. When you buy dell you know that all of the components are going to work together as well as they could. You won't hit strange bottlenecks because the fsb isn't happy about the cpu temp or something. There are no questions about compatibility and if something doesn't work, you don't get strung up between two vendors that are pointing fingers at each other.

 

Dell is competent (enough) and they're actually there when you call. If the first support guy can't resolve the issue (never happens to me) then they have a backline support team to insure that your issue is resolved no matter what.

 

At home I build the clones myself. If I want to upgrade a piece of hardware some times it can take a day to get it working with all the other components. If a stick of ram dies, I have to do the warranty dance with a vendor that doesn't want to talk to me; or even worse, it's not under warranty. On my clone, every piece has it's own warranty time frame, it's own tech support, and it's own way of hassling me. I can afford for my home PC to be down for a week while I fight the attack of the clones, but at work, I just can't afford the hassles.

 

So for me personally, when it comes to purchasing PC's to run a business, I want the reliability and comfort of knowing that I have a 3 year, no hassle warranty and that if anything breaks I won't have to wage war to get it replaced.

[Neal Jamnik]

As another source and CAD administrator, I can vouch for Chris's comments on Dell. They are exceptional for service. I have dealt with Dell on a few occasions and all problems were resolved very quickly and professionally.

 

I once had a problem with the video card on my workstation. It has a Wildcat II on it. It was determined that they would replace it. They offered to send out a technician but I said I could replace it myself. They sent it overnight and the problem was resolved the next day. No hassles and right back to work.

 

Because of their support and quality, I just purchased a Dell 650 workstation for home and a Dell Notebook for my better half.

 

Neal

[Guest Walter Moss]

Branding is a successful strategy for people that has to play safe, however this is not the way to go. The military has learned faster than corporate America that there's no one source.

 

There are several small businesses that provide equivalent if not better service than Dell, HP/Compaq or IBM. For you guys to know, the person that is coming to the door from Dell, is no one else than the very same guy that has a store next door to you.

 

One of our divisions has a better solution for critical jobs which is the hot-swap system. Well, we sell two of the same for the price of one and actually much faster than the Dell or whatever, we have successfully kept business running within 3 hours with hardware available at their own location.

 

Bottom line, when things go wrong you have to be ready to fix it now and not tomorrow.

 

Indeed you will have a hard time explaining and justifying your boss why you have to spend so much to obtain less than half than from a VAR.

 

Think twice again.

 

Walter Moss

Onemark LLC

walter@onemark.net

 

 

[Rick Dorrington]

Interesting topic. I'm surprised there haven't been more opinions on this one.

 

I don't envy being in Bill's position having to justify a few dollars for a machine that is going to make money for the company. As with most things you purchase, "You get what you pay for". I understand it can be hard to see the value and even harder to show others where it is. Going cheap in a CAD workstation is false economy.

 

As far as picking a supplier I'll go along with sticking with the big boys. We have been on every side of the fence and the best by far has been our dealings with IBM. I agree with Walter that DELL uses local computer techs to handle their service and this is where the problems lie. It sounds like Walter and OneMark have a good system going for them but it's also likely that they have the staff to support bigger accounts. Your local guys are selling computers to the 50+ crowd so that they can email their grand kids. Even if the local guys are competent they often don't have the time to address your issues in a timely manner, they are likely burning a candle at both ends.

 

We had an IBM server go down .(Yes they do) The IBM guy showed up in about 90 minutes, with an IBM truck full of IBM parts. He quickly determined that the voltage regulator on the motherboard was faulty. One phone call and the parts were in a taxi and at our door 90 minutes later. 15 or so minutes to re-assemble and our server is back up. Total time about 3.5 hours. Then he spent another day looking at our tape drive and ended up coming back twice to replace it. He kept at it until it worked correctly. He gave us his 24 hour phone number and said on the way out "call me ANYTIME".

 

Cost for this service: Nil, under warranty.

 

If your business depends on your computers like ours does then you don't have enough time or money to fight with them. Choose wisely.

[dsulli]

I just noticed this post and I think I can help. I've used Dells, clones, and now have an XI. The Dells were not workstations (company didn't want to spend the bucks), but were good systems that needed better graphics cards down the road. The clones were generally reliable systems, but the quality of some of the components was questionable. The last clone I had needed a new RAM stick after less than one year, and shortly after the warranty expired, the power supply quit working. On top of all that, the Zip drive was acting funny (wouldn't always work).

 

The next time I was told I could replace the clone, I was allocated $3500. $1000 of that money was spent on a 19-inch Viewsonic LCD monitor. The other $2500 was use to get the best high-quality computer I could find. That computer is an XI Athlon 2400+. According to the CAD mags, it is faster than any Pentium IV 2.4 GHz workstation and if you DO match its speed with a Pentium, you spend quite a bit more money.

 

After using it now for the last couple of months, I can honestly say that this computer is superb in every way. It is extremely quiet, blazing fast, and the ATI Fire GL-8800 (128 MB) graphics card is great with IronCAD.

 

Of course, the Viewsonic moniter is the envy of the company and for good reason - it never tires the eyes or gives headaches after hours of constant use - highly recommended!

 

Anyway, from a man with experience, get the XI; it is WELL worth the slight extra cost over the local clone computers.

 

Dave

[tlehnhaeuser]

I had purchased two TriStar StarStations about a 1-1/2 ago. These were promoted as CAD workstations. Well I had to rebuild both of them 4 times already from stratch not to mention that they use the Elsa Gladiac graphics cards before I learned that Elsa didn't exist anymore. So I got two machines with obseleted vcards... so getting drivers is a nightmare.

Anyway, I won't do that again.

 

 

[Rick Dorrington]

Server went down again over the weekend. Seems that there was a problem with the Voltage Regulator Module, again.

 

08:20 - Call IBM Support

09:05 - Tech Support Calls Back

09:45 - Service Technician Calls Back

11:42 - Service Technician Arrives

11:50 - Server Online

 

Total time - 3.5 Hours

 

It should be noted as well that our warranty covers "next business day".

 

Not Bad.

 

Apparently this problem is well known and they have since taken steps to alleviate the cause. They tell us that this problem is peculiar to our version of server and that it shouldn't happen again. Hope not.

[Chris Lohman]

I have been hearing many many good things about XI lately so I emailed their sales department and asked them how they handle support. I asked them how they would handle a hard drive replacement if one that a customer owned under warranty died. My question was, would they replace the hard drive from their stock, or would they send you to the hard drive vendor like so many "corner clone" stores do.

 

I received what I believe to be a very encouraging answer from them and am pasting it here for your information. This answer has encouraged me to strongly consider an XI computer the next time I upgrade.

Dear Chris,

 

Our tech support is actually quite superior because we handle it IN ITS ENTIRETY in house.

 

With the big guys farming out the tech support calls to India and the service part to third parties, we @Xi Computer provide a personalized and fast "in house" solution to all support issues.

 

To specifically answer your Hard Drive example, we would replace the hard drive immediately with same or better, directly from our warehouse with overnight shipping and a return call tag for the faulty one. We keep a complete profile for each system we sell, via its serial number and the tech support personnel is always aware of the correct spare part to send to the customer, even after 3 years or beyond warranty repair.

 

Thanks fro all your support,

- Robert

 

Robert Bragaglia | Sales & Marketing

Phone: 949-498-0858, 800-432-0486

Fax: 949-492-6571,

E-Mail: robertb@xicomputer.com

Web: http://www.xicomputer.com

FTP: ftp://ftp.xicomputer.com

@Xi Computer Corporation

980 Calle Negocio,

San Clemente, CA 92673 USA

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[dsulli]

Chris,

 

I too, was very encouraged after talking to some of the guys at XI. They really know the technical issues and even suggest ways to meet your needs at lower cost. For example, I needed a network connection, but was not concerned about having a high-end sound card, since the 19-inch LCD monitor had built-in speakers (fine for work use). The salesguy suggested a motherboard with built-in ethernet and sound connections, saving me enough to upgrade the RAM.

 

The best part about XI computers is that they specialize in configuring the best CAD boxes for the money, without sacrificing quality.

 

I was also surprised to find out that they are located 20 minutes north of here in San Clemente, CA.