Trying To Get Ic Into Local University

[Guest mrehnelt]

I'm on the Mechanical Engineering Advisory Board for a local small university and I'm very frustrated. I've had heated discussions with the Professor in charge of teaching the CAD classes, (as well as the department head) and he is insistent upon using a combination of Pro E and Inventor in his classes. He's saying he wants a "full featured" modeler for the students to learn, why I have no idea. At this stage in their learning curve, they should be using the most user friendly modeler out there (IC), and creating geometry to use in analysis programs and for other classes, instead of torturing the kids with history based logic and the humongous learning curve associated with it. We've hired 2 new grads from the program and they have been working in IC for 4 months now, each with their own product lines and doing great in IC, they are very critical of the teachings of the university CAD program, now that they see how it COULD have been. I'm pretty numb now, having tried discussing this topic at length with them, don't know what to try next.

 

At our last meeting, we also learned about Project Lead the Way(www.pltw.org), which is an organization created to provide kids in middle and high school with exposure to Engineering, with the intent being to recruit some of these kids into the engineering profession to replace the multitude of Baby Boomers set to retire in the next 15 years. The program includes some modeling experience as well as exposure to many Engineering aspects. Inventor is the software which must be used, with all software used kept up to the most current revision. This is another perfect application for IC, I've had my 4th grade son on it for some small modeling sessions and he's learned it fast. I'm afraid that if I attempt to get my local school involved with this, Inventer will be the modeler used.

 

Any suggestions? I know IC offers student licenses but I can't get my foot in the door. Feel free to move this thread if I have placed it in the wrong forum for this subject.

 

-Mike Rehnelt

[Rick Dorrington]

Well....

 

I have also been in this situation having been invited to sit on a local college board as a stand-in because of my position in industry. All I can say is that you may as well clamp your head in a vise and end it all now.

 

I found the "educators" to be a bunch of no-brain lemmings who had zero interest in listening to the invited "experts" because their decision to proceed was a foregone conclusion. It turns out that educational institutions must- by their charters- hold a certain number of "meetings" and other BS sessions in order to keep their funding and status. The schools are full of has-been or never-been social rejects who only care about keeping their cushy positions and in no way would any one of them stick their neck out further than their top button.

 

The reason that they use Autodesk products and Pro-E is because that is what they "heard about" and "everyone" uses it. I'm not sure about incentives but by the look of it IronCad has a pretty sweet educational deal. I raised the point that we have not a single customer using Autodesk products. Several others expressed the same sentiment but to no avail. Autodesk or bust, end of discussion. "Advanced" courses were to offer Pro-E.

 

Ok, now that I have that off my chest I don't really think it's fair to paint them all with the same brush. I have had/known some excellent teachers/administrators and have a lot of respect for what they do. The problem here is that most of the time you are dealing with administrators who got where they are by nodding up and down a lot and probably get very little respect or regard from the real teachers. (Not unlike your day job)

 

I do recall from a press release a few years ago that there is a University in our area that did install a fair bit of IronCad. I remember thinking at the time that they must be a very progressive bunch of people who really care about their programs. I do not know how it has worked out for them but I am curious.

 

The funny thing is that we regularly get calls from the local college wondering if we can or will accept co-op students. We tell them that we don't use Autodesk products and that we're not interested. It takes too long and costs too much to bring someone up to a productive level with the type of work that we do. Of course there are exceptions to this generality but separating the wheat from the chaff is not that easy in such a short timeframe. We have a program with the local high school whereby twice a week the shop class actually comes to our facility and the students work on things. It has been very successful over the years and many (if not all) of our apprentices start this way.

 

I think you need to decide how much you are willing to give. If you can accept that this is not going to happen but for the sake of trying you give it what you have then it might be worth it. If the only solution acceptable to you is IronCad then you are probably setting yourself up to go postal on someone. Sad to say but sometimes it's not worth the aggravation.

 

Rick

 

P.S. I have this "friend" who gets a call from local College that needs night teacher with his skills and because he is well respected in the industry. Figuring out pay vs hours plus gas plus travel time plus student time = less than minimum wage. When said "friend" points this out they say "well that's what it pays". My "friend" laughs to himself and leaves. So why do night courses end up being taught by less than talented people in a lot of cases? To fill the hole. Again, not in every case because there are some people who genuinely do it for the personal satisfaction and/or because they don't really need the money and have the time. For me (I mean my "friend") the personal satisfaction did not outweigh the ridiculously low wage.

[bcbmde]

I recently graduated one of those schools that teach Autodesk products. I must say that Autodesk does suck, but... learning about profiles and work planes is directly transferable to the majority of other CAD applications (it's just a matter of figuring out how to get to the command). If I had been taught IronCAD in school, I would not have been able to readily pick up any other CAD application (where is my block and triball). On the other hand, I was taught AutoCAD, Mechanical Desktop, and I-DEAS, which made IronCAD seem like a dream. If the majority of students started to learn IC, they would jump into the industry and get lots of strange looks with even fewer job offers. Please do not hurt the students by teaching them the easy way to do things.

[jcraig]

As a college teacher (47 years), I agree with your experience and frustration.

We have been teaching IronCAD in our freshman courses since it evolved

from TriSpectives. A short time with the software was all it took to see that

this was the best tool for teaching and developing 3D thinking.

 

Last Fall the edict came down that we must go back to teaching AutoCAD.

"Because students cannot get a job unless they know AutoCAD". This was

from a department chairman and the dean. The best we could do was

2/3 AutoCAD and 1/3 IronCAD to at least get a little 3D into the course.

 

Advisory committees are a little like preaching to the choir. We hear you

and would like to do what you recommend. The message does not get

to the power structure with enough force to get much done. A call from

a rich alumnus can get more changed that years of meetings.

 

Teachers need to be shown what IronCAD can do. One on one sessions

at the computer, informal Saturday user groups at your office, seminars

at colleges and high schools using a video projector will begin to build

interest. Students and teachers can get IronCAD at a very reasonable

price once they are aware of the capabilities.

[Rick Dorrington]

get lots of strange looks with even fewer job offers. Please do not hurt the students by teaching them the easy way to do things.

 

There is some truth to the job statement but it doesn't make it right.

 

By all means keep doing "things" the hard way. Meanwhile I'll keep making money and enjoying my leisure time while you struggle and toil away because I appear to get things done quicker, cheaper and better. (Metaphorically speaking here)

 

Seriously, do you start a campfire to make your toast in the morning? Crank start your car?

 

 

"All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions"

 

-Adlai Ewing Stevenson

24th U.S Vice President