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> 2D Editing UI changes

IronKevin
post Feb 4 2009, 05:40 PM
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There have been many questions regarding the changes made in V11 to the 2D Editing commands. To clear things up and show the benefits of the new UI we've decided to post a couple videos that outline the new capabilties and differences between V10 and V11.

Attached File  V10_Move2D.exe ( 1.7mb ) Number of downloads: 844


Attached File  V11_Move2D.exe ( 2.69mb ) Number of downloads: 908
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cborer
post Feb 5 2009, 07:10 AM
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Hi Kevin
I am sorry but this is a sample how to make good things worse.

The right mouse click behavior was great, I liked it very much.

Right click / pull / copy was very nice and damned fast!
I miss it.

Now it needs more time and preview became worse.
...and on my machine at home it didn't really work even.

But how the hell can IC tinker around on good tools while we are still waiting on tools whose absent leeds IC user in pernament dead ends!
Tools we asked many years!
I cannot understand IC!

Please Please don't make good things worse, please develop the missing tools for construction! Please use your time to go on!
Sorry
Carlo




Missing tools (short list):

o Sweep Along Curve Perpendicular to Surface Control
o Trim Surface By 3D Curve
o 3D Curve Projection Option to Pull to Surface Normal
o New Sweep Surface tools to create developable surface, later: Unroll Developable Surface
o Create sweep surface (or Ruled) with short Isolines, minimal surface area
o Surface Quality, and Analysis, Real-time Surface Curvature Control, Zebra
o Selection Filter "3d Curve"
o Fill Up tool for closed surfaces
o Cap Tool for closed one / multiple curve
o Metric Sheet metal Stock, if set metric as default for IC

This post has been edited by cborer: Feb 5 2009, 07:20 AM
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svangeldern
post Feb 5 2009, 05:37 PM
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I have to say I'm with Carlo on this one..

In addition:

I can not enter a decimal point as the first character in the X, Y parameter
fields. As a result I have to enter 0.5 instead of .5...which I forget to do and the
object moves 5 instead of .5....This is inconsistent with scene boxes.

No math in the parameter fields ...this is a huge regression and is inconsistent with scene boxes.

When you have already moved an object, but not accepted the move, and add
another object, the preview does not update with the added object. Same with
removing objects. You might say the preview doesn't.

With the scene browser docked. Select an object(s). Select move. Move your mouse
directly to a parameter box, without going over the scene, to enter a value. Notice
selected objects is blank. Move your mouse over the scene....value just entered is
set to zero. The START parameter box is blank as well so if you try to drag your
object(s) will be deselected.

Sometimes when I have a object(s) selected and then select move..the START
parameter box stays blank, which I don't notice until after I try a drag which
merely deselects the objects.


Right click. Done.


Steve


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tlehnhaeuser
post Feb 16 2009, 11:25 PM
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Sorry to say irondudes, bring back the R/C drag and call it a day.
I cant enter values and must of the time I don;t know what the vlaue is anyway, I clcik to points without ever caring about the actual vaue.
Thanks
tom
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dhovatter
post Feb 17 2009, 08:40 AM
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I have issues with the 2d edit commands as well.
The input parameters window is not friendly sometimes you can highlight and edit sometimes the data that was there needs to be deleted first.
Plus the window is too small. Just not friendly.
Dallas

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Mike Allen
post Feb 19 2009, 01:35 PM
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I've watched the video, but I can't figure out how to get the smart guides to show up. I can select the geometry, but when I try to drag it I only drag a green dot that doesn't seem to do anything.

Is there a setting I'm missing that turns on the smart guides? Without them, 2D editing is useless for me.

**************
Edit:

OK, I restarted IronCAD & the smart guides are back.

This is still a cumbersome interface - not nearly as user-friendly & intuitive as before.

This post has been edited by Mike Allen: Feb 19 2009, 01:40 PM
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IronKevin
post Feb 19 2009, 01:39 PM
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In Edit Cross Section mode, right-click to Snap and make sure SmartCursor is on. If that doesn't help, try switching to Software renderer mode.
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dberge
post Mar 5 2009, 04:20 AM
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this is a very bad change i have to say.
could you pls change this back to the old method.

Wim
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B. Ludin
post Mar 6 2009, 06:35 AM
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I agree with the others. The old way was better. Maybe I can get used to the new one, but the lack of math in the entry boxes is a total killer.

Beat
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tlehnhaeuser
post Mar 6 2009, 10:17 AM
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Not sure who asked for this enhancement but lets ask him why. ;-)
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dhovatter
post Mar 9 2009, 08:46 AM
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Even with any changes (can't see any) that may have been done with PU1 (32bit) I see no improvements with the 2d edit.

Why is is so slow to respond. Especially when I use my laptop. I thing an old AT or XT IBM was faster.

What am I doing wrong? It takes like 30 seconds for it to highlight a line when I select it.

Dallas
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IronKevin
post Mar 9 2009, 09:08 AM
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How about in OpenGL or Software mode vs. Advanced OpenGL?
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dhovatter
post Mar 9 2009, 09:48 AM
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When I go to tools/options/rendering I have no selection avail. on my main computer) They are all grayed out except for a bos with two options. OpenGL and DirectX.
have I got something else set wrong?

My Video driver is set to "let application pick"

Dallas
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Mike Twining
post Mar 9 2009, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE(dhovatter @ Mar 9 2009, 04:48 AM)
When I go to tools/options/rendering I have no selection avail. on my main computer) They are all grayed out except for a bos with two options. OpenGL and DirectX.
have I got something else set wrong?
*



The new and "improved" system requires you to exit all your files before you can change your renderer.... (i.e. IC open, but with no files).
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Mike Allen
post Mar 9 2009, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE(IronKevin @ Mar 9 2009, 07:08 AM)
How about in OpenGL or Software mode vs. Advanced OpenGL?
*


I have the same issues in both modes, but in Advanced it's much more common that I will lose all smart guides feedback (more than 50% of the time.)
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Cary OConnor
post Mar 17 2009, 04:38 PM
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Hi All,

I want to get your feedback on the Move/Scale/Command issue. Below is our proposed change to the Move/Scale/Command property browser for IC 2009. With these changes, will the command be back to an acceptable working manner?

Please let me know,
Cary

Requested Changes:

New Page 1
  1. Change the spin controls on the property browser for the Move/Scale/Rotate commands back to the Edit Control (text/numeric input fields).
    1. This will allow support for math equations as I mentioned below (similar to our Edit Dialogs in the IntelliShape Handles).
    2. This will correct the focus issues related to the Spin Control (and will support correct regional settings for localization).
    3. This will correct this issue of inputting decimal values (.025 instead of 0.025)
  2. Add the option to the Move Property Browser for "Vector Distance" in the Parameters field for the Drag value. This will be displayed below the Delta X/Y fields and will update based on the drag values or the delta x/y values (and the delta x/y values will update if the vector distance is modified.
  3. Add a Radio Button for the Select Entities and a radio button for Drag Entities ? To make the UI clear to a user, we will add these radio buttons in a single group in the property browser at the top to denote the different actions (Today the selection inside the select entities control is not obvious to a user). When a user selects the radio button, the user will be placed in that selected mode. Note: We will remove the ?Start? Edit control since it was not clear and had no extra capabilities at this time.
  4. Add a Right-click behavior to toggle the modes ? On the mouse cursor while in the move command, we will display a mouse cursor icon to denote an action on right-click. If the user right-clicks, it will toggle between the select entity mode and drag entity mode. This allows for quick change between the modes and makes it easier for the user to understand how to use the command. An example of the icon is below.
  5. Requested behavior change to the move/scale/rotate commands ? Below is the requested behavior change to the Move Command (although it will apply to the Scale and Rotate as well).
    1. User Starts the Move Command with Nothing Selected
      1. Property browser appears (same as today) with the default focus set to Select Entities Radio Button. User can left-click select or left-click drag to box select entities in the scene.
      2. The cursor will be an arrow with a icon attached to it that looks like a computer mouse with two buttons. The left button will be empty and the right button will have a tab arrow that will tab between drag and select modes (only) when selected. The example icon is shown below. Basically, the users will right-click to change to drag and right-click again to change to select (or they can select the Drag Entities or Select Entities Radio Button to toggle).
      3. When they are in the drag mode, the smartsnap highlights will appear, the preview will show, and the delta x,y, and vector will update and the default focus for the property browser will be in the delta X to allow direct keyboard input after they drag. Tab key will toggle to delta y and then vector (vector is not available until a move has occurred) and then copy.
      4. Once the desired location is placed, the user can hit enter or click on the finish command will accept and finish the command. Note: if you change back to selection and select new curves, the preview of the drag should update to reflect the changes.
    2. User Starts the Move Command with Something Selected
      1. All the options above will still apply except that the Drag Entities Radio button will be selected by default and the select entities control will be populated. The user will be able to left-click and drag the current selection to the desired snap location. After they release the drag, they can input values and change setting like selecting to make a copy. Hitting enter or clicking on the finish command will accept and finish the command.
  6. Add the ability to right-click drag curves while not in the Move Command ? When the move command is not activated, a user in the sketch can select curves and right-click and drag from a curve or a point. When they release, they will have the old Move Here, Copy Here pop-up options. When they select these options, they will be presented with the old dialogs to allow them to position the curves. This mode has limitations that are available in the Move property browser. For example: After selecting the curves, the use can only drag from the curves nearest point (it will automatically find this snap point when dragging) and will not show smartsnap feedback on selection. Also, since the drag is based on a nearest point (or centerpoint), the snap on drag will only snap to curves endpoints and midpoints (and centerpoints).


Cursor Example: Attached File  cursor.bmp ( 4.54k ) Number of downloads: 566


Property Browser Example: Attached Image


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rzito
post Mar 18 2009, 06:22 AM
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Cary

I think your proposal will improve the current situation greatly.

Ralph
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mwalls558626
post Mar 18 2009, 01:15 PM
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One thing I would like to throw into the mix is to see the triball as a functional tool in the 2D arena. It would be great to use all the functions of the triball in the 2D mode. Have it locked to the 2D plane, but functional in all other ways such as copy, mirror, rotate, etc. I think this has been brought up before, but I am always hoping this would be implemented into the 2D drawing function. Any thoughts?

Mike
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Cary OConnor
post Mar 18 2009, 01:49 PM
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The bi-ball idea has been floating around. We will keep it on the list for a possible future item.

Mike - What is your opinion on the proposal?

Cary
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Mike Allen
post Mar 18 2009, 04:58 PM
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I'm a little concerned about point #6 -
QUOTE
...After selecting the curves, the use can only drag from the curves nearest point (it will automatically find this snap point when dragging) and will not show smartsnap feedback on selection. Also, since the drag is based on a nearest point (or centerpoint), the snap on drag will only snap to curves endpoints and midpoints (and centerpoints).

I'd just like to confirm "centerpoint" refers to both circles AND arcs, so that it would be possible to drag an arc from its center point.

Also, how much smartsnap feedback would we be losing on the drag? For instance, if I were dragging a number of selected curves from the center point of an arc, would I see guides pop up to show me when the center point is in line (but not touching) with other curves in the sketch?
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