Working with Sheetmetal Fabricators WorkFlow?

[tlehnhaeuser]

To anyone working with sheetmetal vendors I need some help.

 

If you can explain your workflow of how you take your IronCAD sheetmetal parts and supply to your vendor that would be helpful.

 

Example:

- Do you send them a flat blanks or the folded part?

- Do you supply fully detailed 2D drawings?

- Is there s standard K-Factor you use?

- Do you have your own unique workflow? maybe using PMI or other?

 

Reason for asking.

I am asking because I have a client who is being convinced from the sheetmetal vendor ( who uses Inventor) that IronCAD is crap and screwing up all the bend allowances etc... The vendor is asking for a full detailed 2D drawing.

 

It's been my experience that "honest" sheet metal vendors always want to folded final part and they create their own flats usually because their machines are older and not calibrated to exact K-factors and tolerances, so they need to compensate. Does anyone else have this experience?

 

Any feedback is welcomed.

thank you

Tom

 

[rsaucier]

Tom,

 

May I call you? This is very detailed and I would love to assist. I have manufactured over 10,000 sheet metal parts in IronCAD with ZERO errors.

 

RJ

[tlehnhaeuser]

Tom,

 

May I call you?  This is very detailed and I would love to assist.  I have manufactured over 10,000 sheet metal parts in IronCAD with ZERO errors.

 

RJ

42264[/snapback]

 

 

sure thing RJ

[Mike Hatch]

If you can explain your workflow of how you take your IronCAD sheetmetal parts and supply to your vendor that would be helpful.

 

Example:

- Do you send them a flat blanks or the folded part?

- Do you supply fully detailed 2D drawings?

- Is there s standard K-Factor you use?

- Do you have your own unique workflow? maybe using PMI or other?

 

We supply fully detailed dimensioned 2D drawings of the finished part (not unfolded) with an overall 3D view of the part for reference. Never had any problems (bar one), our view is the sheet metal vendor has the experience and knowledge of his own machines and works in his own way, so long as the finished part is - to drawing - thats fine.

 

I've only had one argumentative vendor (over 30 years ago) who said he could not manufacture from drawing, who challenged me to, "you do it from drawing", so I did, exact to drawing, his company was dropped off the supplier list.

 

Mike.

 

 

[tlehnhaeuser]

Tx Mike

[bmckelvie]

 

My work flow is a lot like Mikes,

 

I supply the fabricator with a drawing that has two parts on it. The first is the flat pattern that they can use for their profile cut. This view has only the overall dimensions on it.

 

The second is the finished part with all dimensions I care about on it. I always have a note on the drawing saying to make the part to the finished dimensions and the flat pattern is only for reference.

 

I use the default K factors and have had good luck.

As Mike says the fabricator knows his equipment and has the experience of actually making the parts.

 

 

Some fabricators prefer two drawings with the first one having only the profile part at 1:1 scale

 

 

Brent

[Robert Andersson]

While at the subject, if you use IronPRO XT you could have use of the tool called "Export Un folded Part".

Should be the same with Ironcad mechanical.

Drag and drop the tool on the "base" surface of a sheet metal part and you will instantly have a flattened DXF version file created, forced to scale 1:1.

This tool will unfold the sheet metal part, then export it to a 2D DXF using a custom ICD template.

 

Also,

There is another tool called "Faces To DXF" that exports a face of a solid to a DXF file.

Can be found in the IronPRO_XT Tools.icc catalog.

-The face selected do not have to be a sheet metal part.

[bmckelvie]

That is really handy, i spend a lot of time making custom 1:1 dxf's for profile cutting and that tool would really simplify the process.

 

 

[MRAHM]

Hi

Check with your vendor what they prefer. The vendor I normally use uses Bycut by Bystronic in their cutting machine. So I can send and unfolded parasolid and their program do the rest. It is easiest for all of us. Bycut is a SolidWorks extension so if they get a parasolid file they can do all measurements they need and even make adjustments if needed. In this case I only supply a course drawing just to make shure no scaling problems occour.

 

If you find a good vendor use them! When you have learned how they want the files/drawings etc then it all becomes easier.

[Robert Andersson]

sure thing RJ

42265[/snapback]

 

Great!

Even greater if you two could share any of that valuable info to the community

 

[mwalls558626]

I have been doing sheet metal parts for a long time, both as an outside person needing a sheet metal part built, and also from the side of being the one that bends it.

 

So, simply put, in order for a sheet metal shop to be able to use a flat pattern generated thru Ironcad, you would have to know the tooling being used. You can't just bend up a sheet metal part, flatten it out, and expect it to universally work at all shops. The reason this is so, is because if it is put in a press brake, they could be using an open air V die, or a coining type die, and these will give different Corner Radius results, just because of how they work, let alone the fact that you can get different corner radius tooling on either style of tooling. The sharper the corner, the larger the flat pattern will have to be to provide enough material to get your desired result.

 

This is easy to confirm by taking any flat piece, make any style bend, and make a copy of it. Then just go into the radius, make them different, and note the change in flat pattern size.

 

I understand that with sheet metal parts, the tolerances are less than typical machined parts, but I can tell you from experience, the more bends you have on a sheet metal part, the more you will see the error stack up, and that will make everyone involved miserable. No one likes to see bad parts made.

 

Mike

[HDEAR]

Hi Tom.

 

A little late with the reply I guess and I am just echoing what most people have written.

 

I'm a newbie to IronCad as you know but I've had extensive sheetmetal experience both in design and application.

 

If I am using a new sheetmetal worker, I go to their shop, look at their equipment, discuss the capabilities and find out what formats they like to receive cad stuff in.

 

I have found that most shops will tell you what K factors they work with, what minimum bend radii for various gauges and materials etc etc. I tray and pick a shop with good machinery and good operators.

 

In nearly all cases they're wanting four things;

 

1) If an assembly of various parts, a 2D GA of the whole shebang.

2) 2D drawing of the part/s - dimensioned in finished form, i.e. not unfolded,

3) 1:1 metric dxf of unfolded part/s, with no fold lines or dimensions, and

4) Some Keyshot close up renders of anything clever or likely to be unclear.

 

Result - no mistakes.

 

They generally don't get that from their other clients. It keeps the price down too plus encourages good feedback from them. I also learn new tricks of the trade

Edited February 23, 2016 by HDEAR

[MRAHM]

About the K-factor. I know that some set up different k-factors for different vendors. But this is all based on their experience and how critical the result is.